AIM Chat Log        4/18/04    TurboEdit Class #1

 

You have just entered room "Chat 25994230922747388618."

SpenserHMT has entered the room.

SpenserHMT: monkey

xhomemadeturbox has entered the room.

xhomemadeturbox: How weird, I watched you do that lol

turboeditsupport: crazy right

turboeditsupport: so im Chris

xhomemadeturbox: I'm such a caveman

turboeditsupport: you guys?

xhomemadeturbox: Justin

SpenserHMT: SPENSER!!@!

turboeditsupport: duh

xhomemadeturbox: Oh no!!!!!=-O

xhomemadeturbox: lol

SpenserHMT: I'm watching you chris!!

SpenserHMT: 8-)

dobinator4 has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: is everyone so far logged in?

turboeditsupport: can see my screen?

xhomemadeturbox: Yep

dobinator4: ya

turboeditsupport: Spense?

xhomemadeturbox: I'm trying to figure out how to see both screens

dobinator4: we dont need the other screen up do we?

dobinator4: nvm that dumb question!

xhomemadeturbox: I was talking about AIM and the reflector deal

JessicaP 411 has entered the room.

SI KVA has entered the room.

JessicaP 411: Bling.

turboeditsupport: not bad so far...we'll wait for a few more people

SpenserHMT: hey bitches

JessicaP 411: Chris: I cna't take control of your screen. :D

turboeditsupport: thats good

JessicaP 411: Hahaha.

JessicaP 411: What's up with only being able to see half o the 7400?

turboeditsupport: i dunno, thats how it shows on my screen

SpenserHMT: yeah me too

JessicaP 411: Right click on "My Computer", choose Properties.

JessicaP 411: Click Advanced.

JessicaP 411: Settings. under performance.

matt bailey9807 has entered the room.

JessicaP 411: "Adjust for best performance".

JessicaP 411: Then click OK.

SpenserHMT: what does that do?

turboeditsupport: nothing i guess :-)

JessicaP 411: Damn.. weird..

turboeditsupport: yeah...doesnt show up like that on other laptops ive used

JessicaP 411: It should have made your windows look like Windows2000.

turboeditsupport: ?

turboeditsupport: who are you BTW?

JessicaP 411: It doesn't look elike that on my screen.

SpenserHMT: wheres Turboef9?

JessicaP 411: TEF9. :P

JessicaP 411: <-- Right here.

SI KVA: ::Stealthmode::

turboeditsupport: must be the TurboEdit programmer

turboeditsupport: errors...i tell you

SpenserHMT: lol

JessicaP 411: :D

dobinator4: lol

JessicaP 411: Chris: Dave Lee is out trying to the new bin right now.

PureCRXtasy has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: nice

PureCRXtasy: how many we got?

JessicaP 411: Dave B should be here as well.

turboeditsupport: retested my compression numbers yerterday

turboeditsupport: 185 across all four

turboeditsupport: dead on

SpenserHMT: shit, I"m nervous to test mine

turboeditsupport: i didnt even have to drop the oil in...

SpenserHMT: dry test powa!

turboeditsupport: must be its my clutch

JessicaP 411: I cleaned my garage today.

turboeditsupport: fucker is fried!!!

JessicaP 411: I'm selling all of my remaining D series shit for $200. :P

PureCRXtasy: who is Jessica P?

turboeditsupport: what do you have...i know someone who might buy it

dobinator4: like what stuff?

SI KVA:

Abaz1320 has entered the room.

SpenserHMT: abaz!!

Abaz1320: Hola

xhomemadeturbox: Yo

PureCRXtasy: sup Jeff

Abaz1320: turbo edit for dummies

xhomemadeturbox: That's me lol

Abaz1320: staring..... Spenser

turboeditsupport: Where's the Doc?

Abaz1320: and Dr.Boost

dobinator4: jeff who?

JessicaP 411: Y8 Head, Y8 Intake Manifold w/ Z6 throttle body. DX Cable Tranny (Perfect) 2 STarts, 3 Alternators, some other misc Y7 longblock that smokes a bit.

matt bailey9807: lots of dummies in here :D

xhomemadeturbox: <<<<Dr.Boost

Abaz1320: <------AbaZ

turboeditsupport: ahhh

SpenserHMT: <-----GOD

SI KVA:

xhomemadeturbox: ^^^dumbass

turboeditsupport: man...the weather here in dirty Jersey was great today!

matt bailey9807: <----- civicvtecb16a

turboeditsupport: mid eighties

turboeditsupport: <-----xenocron BTW

dobinator4: <--- raining hardcore

Abaz1320: Does TE support 3bar maps

Abaz1320: like plug and play

SpenserHMT: i think it does.

JessicaP 411: OK...

turboeditsupport: damn good turnout guys

Revtec2121 has entered the room.

JessicaP 411: I guess we're going to get started?

turboeditsupport: i hope this helps everyone out

turboeditsupport: yeah lets

PureCRXtasy: not bad eh.. repeater is working nicely

JessicaP 411: Nick of ECU control is watching also..

xhomemadeturbox: Anything will help me lol

turboeditsupport: cool

SpenserHMT: where is BLundar

Revtec2121: hey guys/gals ZC4ME here

JessicaP 411: If you have any questions about that, I can relay to him.

turboeditsupport: smokin a J probably

Abaz1320: <---- Zdyne ownz me...

turboeditsupport: not for long!!!

Abaz1320: But.. I suppose I should learn

xhomemadeturbox: AFc wons me:-[

JessicaP 411: OK, before Chris begins explaining the ins and outs of TE.. I think I'll start by letting everyone know what's coming up.

turboeditsupport: ok...is there anyone here that has never opened TurboEdit?

matt bailey9807: which windows do i need open and closed?

turboeditsupport: k..ill wait

Abaz1320: should I download turbo edit

xhomemadeturbox: lol

turboeditsupport: :-)

Abaz1320: I dont even have it

SpenserHMT: lol

turboeditsupport: you dont need it now

JessicaP 411: Ya.. everyone download and install.

Abaz1320: I know how the program works

Abaz1320: lets talk about the chipping stuff

JessicaP 411: That might help you walk through the stuff Chris is going to use.

Abaz1320: ;-)

turboeditsupport: but you all should DL it and play around with what you learn today

JessicaP 411: OK...

PureCRXtasy: Jeff.. chipping odb0 is cake

turboeditsupport: everyone shut up and let Jason talk!!!

JessicaP 411: OK.. lets go..

Abaz1320: the whole "De-solder, and through in a socket in"

JessicaP 411: Everyone quiet. :P

Abaz1320: :-X

matt bailey9807 has left the room.

JessicaP 411: OK, for those of you who don't know.. TurboEDIT is an OBD0 engine management system for NA and Turbo applications.

matt bailey9807 has entered the room.

JessicaP 411: Allowing for modification of the computers fuel and ignition tables, and added features..

JessicaP 411: Things like, Launch Control.. Boost.. Datalogging.. Real-Time Programming.. so on so forth.

JessicaP 411: Current verison is 2.0 BEta, Try9.

JessicaP 411: 2.0 Beta Try10 will be released in about 2 weeks.

JessicaP 411: New features for Try10 include..

turboeditsupport: This can all be found at www.turboedit.org

JessicaP 411: Minor bug fixes. A complete rewrite of the backend of TE to support a plugin interface.

Abaz1320: is there pictures on how to socket the ecu and stuff... kinda like how I do write ups?

JessicaP 411: It will also see the integration of a new function VTEC ROM.

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Ya, I did one already.. I'll link you later.

Abaz1320: :-*

JessicaP 411: This biggest thing is the plugin interface.

JessicaP 411: This will be an open source API that will let ANYONE who wants code new features for TurboEDIT and integrate them into your current editor.

JessicaP 411: Currently planned plugins include..

JessicaP 411: Tuning Wizard, MAP Scalar Editor (for 2 and 3Bar MAP sensor, and ITB Setups ::wink wink Jeff::-), and a new full featured Datalogger.

JessicaP 411: The Datalogger is going to be written by Nick of ECUControl!

PureCRXtasy: are the plugins just COM DLLs?

JessicaP 411: Pure: Yep! :D

PureCRXtasy: sweet.. I'll be writing some then

JessicaP 411: So, the invitation goes out to anyone who wants to join the TurboEDIT Team.

Abaz1320: jeff doesnt know what .dlls and coms are

JessicaP 411: We'll all make this the best editor we can.

Abaz1320: but I know if you delete them windows gets fucked up

SNPTuningAA has entered the room.

JessicaP 411: Oh, ther eis also a guy who is going to write a 2D table editor plugin.

PureCRXtasy: is there going to be an SDK released?

JessicaP 411: Pure: Hadn't planned on it.

turboeditsupport: SDK?

turboeditsupport: for us dumbfucks?

PureCRXtasy: software dev kit

JessicaP 411: Dev Kit.

turboeditsupport: k

JessicaP 411: Pure: Basically, I had planned on just documenting the API.

PureCRXtasy: ok that should be fine

JessicaP 411: I can give a template for VB though.

PureCRXtasy: cool.. I code most in VB

turboeditsupport: K, can i go ahead with my thing?  are you done J?

PureCRXtasy: 6.. not that .net shit

JessicaP 411: OK, does anyone have any questions specifically about new features to be added, or what may be supported in the future?

dobinator4: vtec!

Abaz1320: vtec is a must

JessicaP 411: VTEC is working.

dobinator4: with boost?

JessicaP 411: There is a ROM with it.

JessicaP 411: VTEC & Boost, yes.

PureCRXtasy: which .bin?

JessicaP 411: Both functioning.

dobinator4: :-)

JessicaP 411: Pure: it's on the PGMFI website.

JessicaP 411: However.

Abaz1320: so we have a "VTECH" output eh

JessicaP 411: It's not currently supported by TurboEDIT.

JessicaP 411: JEff: Yes.

dobinator4: how about PR3s?

Abaz1320: which pin

SI KVA: I do. What is the difference in the next "try" and a 2.1 or 2.2 version.  The next "try" is the updated version ????

JessicaP 411: A8 sameas PR3.

Abaz1320: ok

JessicaP 411: dob: What about it?

Abaz1320: ok guys, lets not start talking geek to much in here

dobinator4: the new bin will work with pr3

turboeditsupport: lets dumify this totally

xhomemadeturbox: WTF

xhomemadeturbox: yeah

JessicaP 411: SI: The "Try" series how I describe a new beta.

matt bailey9807: im lost

JessicaP 411: Try 9 is 2.0.9.

JessicaP 411: IT's just a name.

Abaz1320: lets get basic here....

PureCRXtasy: doesn't that just correspond with the updated rom that's available?

turboeditsupport: Remember, there are TWO very distinct pieces of the puzzle at work here

turboeditsupport: the ROM!!

JessicaP 411: Pure: No.

turboeditsupport: and TurboEdit

JessicaP 411: Yes.

JessicaP 411: There are two differne peices.

JessicaP 411: TurboEDIT.. and the ROM.

turboeditsupport: does everyone understand the diff?

PureCRXtasy: I mean.. you add changes to impliment what the rom has

JessicaP 411: Pure: Correct.

turboeditsupport: say yes if you understand so i know

JessicaP 411: The ROMs have version numbers, and turboedit has version numbers.

SI KVA: yes, lets start tuning. hehe

SpenserHMT: yes

turboeditsupport: k....

JessicaP 411: OK, one sec.

PureCRXtasy: so the ROM code is written first and you add the ability to edit and manipulate it in TE

Revtec2121: uhh yes, I guess, lol

Abaz1320: what is a ROM

JessicaP 411: Does anyone have an specific problems (for those of you who already use TE?)

PureCRXtasy: ROM is the code on the chip

SpenserHMT: well whats a .Bin then?

PureCRXtasy: same thing

turboeditsupport: TurboEdit is the Puppet Master of the ROM

PureCRXtasy: different term

dobinator4: will the vtec & boost bin (on pgmfi.org) work for my boost pr3?

JessicaP 411: Dob: No.

dobinator4: DAM!

JessicaP 411: Dob: You have stock PR3 editing support.

dobinator4: ya buddy!

JessicaP 411: Dob: Best to invest in a PM6 ECU.

dobinator4: we emailed each other

SpenserHMT: I d/l the surfer-DOHC_ZC.exp  from turboedit.org, how do i open it in turobedit?

dobinator4: what about vtec?

JessicaP 411: Heh, sorry, I don't remember. :-(

Abaz1320: do you have to use the ROMULATOR with TE

xhomemadeturbox: K guys, I'm a retard and don't know a fuckng thing about this, and I want to learn, but this is getting crazy

turboeditsupport: Spense I will be conv ering that

JessicaP 411: Abaz: You don't have to, no.

Abaz1320: explain ROMULATOR

turboeditsupport: k, Jason

turboeditsupport: let me splian!

JessicaP 411: OK.

JessicaP 411: Start at the beginning.. I'll just chill.

turboeditsupport: ok...hopefulyl you can all watch my screen

turboeditsupport: i will go slow

SpenserHMT: ok

Abaz1320: getting doogie howswer and shit on my ass

turboeditsupport: so i open turboedit

turboeditsupport: and i have already downloaded a BIN file

Abaz1320: a bin file is a map right

turboeditsupport: if you need one...try here http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=12&i=3331&t=3331

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Correct.

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Sort of.

turboeditsupport: this is the latest Boost Bin from PGMFI

Abaz1320: the bin stores the fuel/ignition tables right?

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Yep.

turboeditsupport: like Jparker does the Try's for his editor

PureCRXtasy: Chris.. move the chat window. it's easiest to make it 1/4 screen across the top

JessicaP 411: JEff: That's exactly it.

Abaz1320: ok so we open the .bin file in our EDITOR

JessicaP 411: JEff: Correct.

SI KVA: that's good there

Abaz1320: and we are looking at our FUEL/SPARK MAPS

turboeditsupport: opened

Abaz1320: and shit

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Correct.

Abaz1320: ok and we can make our adjustments

turboeditsupport: yes, 1 NA Fuel and 1 NA Spark

turboeditsupport: 1 Boost fuel

turboeditsupport: 1 boost spark

Abaz1320: 4 maps

Abaz1320: ??

turboeditsupport: yes

Abaz1320: jesus, is this like hondata

turboeditsupport: more resolution

JessicaP 411: Jeff. :-)

PureCRXtasy: it's better than hondata

Abaz1320: ok.. so we make our adjustments on our maps

SI KVA: (Abaz gets name on the board for excessive talking while the teacher is teaching)

turboeditsupport: the values along the left side are what your map sensor is reading (pressure in the intake manifold)

Abaz1320: I'm asking dumb questions so you guys understand

Abaz1320: so they dont get to geekish on you

Abaz1320: ok.. So I have my BIN opened

Abaz1320: now what

turboeditsupport: the values along the top are MAP

turboeditsupport: sorry

Abaz1320: how do I get my BIN onto my ROM

turboeditsupport: on the left side of the 'map' is RPMs

Abaz1320: or are we there yet

Abaz1320: lol

JessicaP 411: (Average Manifold Pressure values).

matt bailey9807: do the maps work the same as uberdata?

turboeditsupport: im gonna Boot your ass!

JessicaP 411: matt: No.

Abaz1320: What kind of MAPS do we have

turboeditsupport: listen

turboeditsupport: please

turboeditsupport: then ask

turboeditsupport: i will be very slow and un - geeky

Abaz1320: 8-)

turboeditsupport: so left side RPMs

turboeditsupport: top rows are MAP sensor (pressure in the intake manifold)

turboeditsupport: the colored values in the Fuel Map represent Injector Pulsewidth (how much fuel the injectors are firing)

turboeditsupport: so if you are driving along and you are doing 3100 RPMs and the MAP sensor (also called LOAD) is at -22

turboeditsupport: whats the vallue?

turboeditsupport: how much is your injector firing?

PureCRXtasy: 3.02

Revtec2121: 3.02

Abaz1320: 6.5

xhomemadeturbox: WTF does that mean though?

Abaz1320: what do those #'s MEAN

xhomemadeturbox: volts?

Abaz1320: MS

turboeditsupport: no

turboeditsupport: injector pulse widht

turboeditsupport: in milliseconds

Abaz1320: how long the injector stays open

PureCRXtasy: how much fuel

xhomemadeturbox: cool

turboeditsupport: how long the injector stays open

turboeditsupport: so as you can see

JessicaP 411: Amount of fuel that is actually flowing is dictated by fuel pressure, and injector size.

matt bailey9807: bigger the number more fuel?

turboeditsupport: generally as you rev higher

JessicaP 411: matt: Correct.

turboeditsupport: or your LOAD increases

turboeditsupport: your engine needs more fuel

Synopt1c has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: at the same time....it needs timing

Synopt1c: trillian rocks

turboeditsupport: or Spark

JessicaP 411: Syn: Sssh. :P

Synopt1c: Hi Jason

Synopt1c: Hi all

turboeditsupport: you set your Base timing on your distributor

SpenserHMT: to stock?

turboeditsupport: your ECU controls the timing while the car operates

Abaz1320: 16

turboeditsupport: yes to stock

turboeditsupport: 16 degrees

turboeditsupport: using a timing gun (another class)

Abaz1320: haha

turboeditsupport: as you can see

turboeditsupport: as you rev higher...your engine needs more timing

Abaz1320: So are we done talking about fuel

turboeditsupport: but as your LOAD increases, you need LESS

Abaz1320: maybe people had questions about fuel

turboeditsupport: wait wait

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Ssh. :P

turboeditsupport: just explaing the basics

Abaz1320: ok

turboeditsupport: questions so far

turboeditsupport: ....

xhomemadeturbox: I have a million, but I'll listen first lol

turboeditsupport: ask one

SpenserHMT: how come there are only 15 values for map pressure

JessicaP 411: Just to clarify.. what you're looking at..

xhomemadeturbox: Why does the RPM only go to 7400, when I need it to go higher?

Revtec2121: on the vac ingnition map, why are the values negative, is that vacum?

Abaz1320: good question doctor

turboeditsupport: k

JessicaP 411: Across the top are the average pressure values for each column. Down the left are the average RPM readings for each row.

matt bailey9807: what do all the colours mean? which colour is more retarded than the rest?

xhomemadeturbox: Even if I set the RPM limit to 8000 it still only lets me mod to 7400

turboeditsupport: ok....let us answer

JessicaP 411: The ignition table is read in degress before top dead center. This value is added on top of your stock (set at the distributor) setting.

Abaz1320: it uses the last value in that table I believe

JessicaP 411: Fuelt able is measure in milliseconds.

JessicaP 411: Currnet question: "Why does it only go to 7400?" "What if I need more?"

turboeditsupport: how come there are only 15 values for map pressure...because thats how Honda intended it...that offers enough resolution to get a safe and effective 'tune' from

JessicaP 411: Christ...

JessicaP 411: Oh.

JessicaP 411: *chris

JessicaP 411: Hahah.

turboeditsupport: let me try

turboeditsupport: you answer if i cant get it

JessicaP 411: Yep, have at it.. I'm just clearing up the chat.

JessicaP 411: Currnet question: "Why does it only go to 7400?" "What if I need more?"

turboeditsupport: Even if I set the RPM limit to 8000 it still only lets me mod to 7400....yes...you can rev higher....but the ECU can only pull from the highest column...if you are going to rev higher than 7400...richen that last ROW up to accomodat

turboeditsupport: for more fuel for your engine

JessicaP 411: (Same goes for pressure.. if you have more pressure than what is being read by the column, fatten up the last COLUMN and you'll be OK)

turboeditsupport: what do all the colours mean? which colour is more retarded than the rest....the colors dont 'mean' anthing...they are there to help you see a pattern or a weird difference in the map

JessicaP 411: "on the vac ingnition map, why are the values negative, is that vacum?"

turboeditsupport: k....they are negative because the engine is sucking air....creating a vacuum

JessicaP 411: (Colors indicate intensity.. it's only visual)

turboeditsupport: 0 is no vacuum and no boost

turboeditsupport: below 0 is negative (vacuum)

turboeditsupport: above 0 is positive (boost)

Revtec2121: yeah boost!!

Revtec2121: soory

dobinator4: lol

turboeditsupport: the thing to watch is that Negative is read in Inches of Mercury

turboeditsupport: InHg

turboeditsupport: and postive is read in PSI

turboeditsupport: pounds per sq. inch

turboeditsupport: two different scales really

Revtec2121: i cannot see all the fields right now, are there boost fields on there?

turboeditsupport: but chances are your Boost/Vac guage reads that way

turboeditsupport: yes

turboeditsupport: see the Turbos across the bottom of TE?

Revtec2121: yup

turboeditsupport: those are your 4 Maps

Revtec2121: ahhhh :-)

turboeditsupport: click on them to Navigate

turboeditsupport: anymore basic questions about the stuff i have covereed?

Revtec2121: don't have te on this puter, at a friends house

turboeditsupport: k

JessicaP 411: (The bar across the bottom is similar to your Windows task bar. You can minimize windows to "get them out of the way" while you're not working with them)

turboeditsupport: you see my screen tho

Revtec2121: yea, it's cool, I get it now

Revtec2121: thanks

SI KVA: yes, so on the boost map the numbers at the top represent the pressure. But is that in bar or psi?

Revtec2121: psi

turboeditsupport: psi

turboeditsupport: thanks

turboeditsupport: k

turboeditsupport: next topic

SpenserHMT: again, how do I upload .exp files

turboeditsupport: importing and exporting maps

SI KVA: wait

turboeditsupport: k

JessicaP 411: Spen: That will be covered.

JessicaP 411: SI: yes?

PureCRXtasy: what is the difference between the ignition and fuel maps?

turboeditsupport: so you have this map like i have opened in front of me

SI KVA: in general. The difference in the fuel value should change how much from say 1 psi to 2?

xhomemadeturbox: What if I want to run more than the given 8.7psi?

turboeditsupport: wo wo

JessicaP 411: Si: That will be answered int he tuning section.

turboeditsupport: k

turboeditsupport: Pure

SI KVA: oh

turboeditsupport: ignition is what controls when your spark plug fires

JessicaP 411: xhomemade: It works the same as a rev limit too high. You just fatten up the last column for your target pressure level.

turboeditsupport: fuel is how much fuel your injctorrs are supplyinh

PureCRXtasy: I know that

SNPTuningAA: when importing will it transfer all the "Properties" values or just the table values?

turboeditsupport: wait on the importing

turboeditsupport: thats the next opic

SNPTuningAA: coo

turboeditsupport: in general. The difference in the fuel value should change how much from say 1 psi to 2?

turboeditsupport: thats what tuning is

turboeditsupport: specific for your engine

SI KVA: ok, I'm confortable with moving on.

turboeditsupport: you will use a wideband and your gauges to

turboeditsupport: k

JessicaP 411: Importing and Explorting...

turboeditsupport: importing

turboeditsupport: i have a map open...but i download an EXP from turboedit.org

turboeditsupport: tools - map import/export

turboeditsupport: choose import maps

turboeditsupport: it opens a screen to pick a file

turboeditsupport: i see two files

JessicaP 411: (Short Cut: Right click Tables Choose Map Import and Export)

turboeditsupport: db07

turboeditsupport: db08

turboeditsupport: i choose one

turboeditsupport: here i get more options

turboeditsupport: i can choose to import the whole thing...all 4 maps

turboeditsupport: or i can pick and choose

turboeditsupport: lets say i just want to import the fuel ONLY

turboeditsupport: no ignition

turboeditsupport: i uncheck the 2 ignition boxes

turboeditsupport: you can also read info here about the tune

turboeditsupport: Dave Blundell has written a nice little explaination

xhomemadeturbox: Ng5 is what? A bin?

turboeditsupport: now that imported both the Fuel maps...VAC and BOOST

JessicaP 411: xhome: Yes.

turboeditsupport: NG5 is a BIN

turboeditsupport: has maps in it

dobinator4: jess can you message me?

Abaz1320: ok I'm gonna ask a gay question

turboeditsupport: k

turboeditsupport: Abaz

Synopt1c has left the room.

Abaz1320: <-- just downloaded TE

Abaz1320: hah

Abaz1320: how do I convert a NA map to FI

Synopt1c has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: i will cover that

Abaz1320: ok

turboeditsupport: ok...so importing is rather simple

turboeditsupport: exporting is the opposite

turboeditsupport: im going to export this map

SpenserHMT: export to where?

Revtec2121: another dumb question..

turboeditsupport: tools - map import export

PureCRXtasy: a file

turboeditsupport: wait on the Q's

Revtec2121: ok

SI KVA: Your importing files that are already saved on your computer right? not directly from TE?

turboeditsupport: k...here...you export EVERYTHING

turboeditsupport: no picking and choosing

turboeditsupport: PLEASE write a summary of what you are exporting

turboeditsupport: so people know

turboeditsupport: export....make up a name

turboeditsupport: there...the EXP is saved to a file

turboeditsupport: viola

turboeditsupport: in the directory where i put that

turboeditsupport: now someone else can import your maps into their BIN

turboeditsupport: questions!!!

SNPTuningAA: when importing will it transfer all the "Properties" values(rev limit,etc.) or just the table values?

turboeditsupport: Jason?

JessicaP 411: No.

SI KVA: you saved it to your computer, and people can Import it?

turboeditsupport: i think just tables

turboeditsupport: if you email it

JessicaP 411: Exporting is strictly tables.

PureCRXtasy: can you save a whole .bin?

JessicaP 411: Pure: Yes.

turboeditsupport: yes you can save a whole bin

turboeditsupport: but!

PureCRXtasy: just file | Save as?

turboeditsupport: yes

JessicaP 411: File Save (for current filename) Save As for new file name.

Revtec2121: maybe this will e covered later, but how did you even open the file to see that tables, I think I missed that?

xhomemadeturbox: What are EXP's?

turboeditsupport: and you can share BINs

turboeditsupport: EXPORTS

turboeditsupport: EXPorts

Abaz1320: can u open them

turboeditsupport: only into another BIN

SpenserHMT: Bins have have the properties saved in them?

turboeditsupport: YES!

JessicaP 411: It's better to share export files than bin files.

Revtec2121: everytime I try I get "this is not a turbo edit ROM, open in advanced mode?"

JessicaP 411: Because some people run TE on different ECUs.

turboeditsupport: BIN have properties and maps

turboeditsupport: EXP have only maps

PureCRXtasy: EXP is Safer

SpenserHMT: thats why it says ESPORT MAPS

turboeditsupport: Rev....you are trying to open BINs not supported by TE

Abaz1320: xhomemadeturbox: import/export fuck sounds like I'm at some trading convention

Abaz1320: haha

Revtec2121: hmm, but I got them from the TE site?

SI KVA: so the Bin is like your "folder" and the tables are things you can import and export in and out of your "folder"?

JessicaP 411: Rev: Are you trying to open a .exp file, or a .bin file?

xhomemadeturbox: I don't understand that either

Abaz1320: I want to open a EXP

JessicaP 411: SI: Yes.

Revtec2121: nothing now, but when I tried it was a .bin

JessicaP 411: You can't directly open a .exp.

SpenserHMT: you have to import a EXP, we covered that just now

Abaz1320: ok

Abaz1320: so I open a bin

turboeditsupport: You can only import an EXP

Abaz1320: and import a exp

JessicaP 411: JefF: Yes.

Abaz1320: ok

SI KVA: and the tables are the actual "exp" and your trying to put them in your "bin" (folder)

Abaz1320: I'll try this shit

JessicaP 411: SI: Correct.

SpenserHMT: whats next?

turboeditsupport: are we all straight?

PureCRXtasy: yep

turboeditsupport: cool so far?

Revtec2121: srry, but I am still kinda confused

SI KVA: woop woop, who needs a chip burned???!!!!???? lol

turboeditsupport: Rev

xhomemadeturbox: <<<<I do

turboeditsupport: whats confusing?

Abaz1320: ok, I just imported a map

Abaz1320: nifty

Revtec2121: how come I cannot opein bin files in te

Abaz1320: ya, I just tried opening 2 .bin files

Abaz1320: and it freaked out

Abaz1320: like george's boost

Abaz1320: or something

turboeditsupport: do you have the Latest version of TE?

Revtec2121: yes

JessicaP 411: George's boost isn't supported in Try9.

PureCRXtasy: those .bins aren't supported

PureCRXtasy: that's old code

turboeditsupport: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=12&i=3331&t=3331

Abaz1320: probably should say that

JessicaP 411: Those are 1.x versions.

turboeditsupport: go here REv

JessicaP 411: Jeff: It does.

Abaz1320: I want to open a boost map

Abaz1320: in TRY9

turboeditsupport: download the NG5.bin file

SpenserHMT: which bin files are? only TE2.0 files? are other EXP files supported?

Revtec2121: i cannot DL anything right now, not at home pc

Abaz1320: whoo hoo, ok

JessicaP 411: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/download.php/12,453/ng5.bin

matt bailey9807 has left the room.

PureCRXtasy: EXP files are native to TE.. so I doubt it

turboeditsupport: Jason....maybe you should get rid of those old BINS on your site

JessicaP 411: People still use them. :-\

turboeditsupport: k...Rev....dont get frustrated with BINs not opening

StreetriceR has entered the room.

StreetriceR: awwww crap

turboeditsupport: later...i will help you find the correct BINs

StreetriceR: did i miss out?!

turboeditsupport: im the middle

JessicaP 411: Stree: Whoa, change the colors.

JessicaP 411: ..please

Revtec2121: whoa fix that shiet

StreetriceR: what?

PureCRXtasy: Street.. I'm logging the whole chat

turboeditsupport: k....

JessicaP 411: Street: Change your colors, please.

turboeditsupport: Street....change your background color

PureCRXtasy: so I can post it up later

StreetriceR: uhh sorry

turboeditsupport: background

turboeditsupport: not text

Abaz1320: ok, why would I want to import a .exp file? arnt all the values stored in the bin?

Revtec2121: ok turboeditsupport, move on, don't want to hold up the class, lol

turboeditsupport: Abz

turboeditsupport: yes....but

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Good question..

turboeditsupport: as progress is made

turboeditsupport: people may want to share maps with say....1 guy has an LS-vtec....and one guy has an LS-vtec with NOS

turboeditsupport: the ROM or BIN will have different code in it

xhomemadeturbox: So what kind of "bin" is the NG5 "bin"? What was it made for?

turboeditsupport: but....the maps will be the same

Synopt1c has left the room.

JessicaP 411: xhome: It's "universal".

Abaz1320: universal what

turboeditsupport: so they can share their tunes

xhomemadeturbox: So it's a starting point?

JessicaP 411: xhome: Yes, it's a basemap.

turboeditsupport: Basemap....

turboeditsupport: good word

Abaz1320: well shit guys, I enjoyed turboedit class

Abaz1320: my I'm going out to dinner

turboeditsupport: coo

Abaz1320: good stuff guys

Abaz1320: good job JP

SNPTuningAA: so is NG5 basically replacing theold stable1.0?

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Thanks for your help Jeff.

turboeditsupport: everyone understand Basemap?

Abaz1320: hah, sorry for being an ass

Abaz1320: lol

Abaz1320: :-*

turboeditsupport: yes SNP

JessicaP 411: Jeff: Heh, you're OK :P

SNPTuningAA: coo

SpenserHMT: GTFO jeff.

Abaz1320 has left the room.

turboeditsupport: its 'upgraded'

xhomemadeturbox: Later Jeff:-*

JessicaP 411: I have to go for about 20 minutes myself, I'll be back in just a bit.

JessicaP 411 has left the room.

turboeditsupport: k

turboeditsupport: everyone still with me?

SpenserHMT: whats next

PureCRXtasy: yep

turboeditsupport: fall asleep yet

xhomemadeturbox: Here

turboeditsupport: :-)

SI KVA: yeah

PureCRXtasy: when is advanced class?

turboeditsupport: lets look at features of the BIN

xhomemadeturbox: Fuck advanced class lol

PureCRXtasy: heh

turboeditsupport: um...who's gonna teach it?

turboeditsupport: no one is good enough yet

xhomemadeturbox: I'll teach it

turboeditsupport: :-)

turboeditsupport: features

SI KVA: PURE:  This class may not be taken twice for double credit. haha

PureCRXtasy: all I really want to know about is the on the fly tuning deal

turboeditsupport: Tools - Options

turboeditsupport: im getting there

PureCRXtasy: cool

turboeditsupport: k..options isnt right :-[

turboeditsupport: File - Properties

turboeditsupport: it shows the code...generation..blah blah blah

turboeditsupport: you can choose between single and dual map

Revtec2121: mmm dual map

turboeditsupport: watch what happens when i change from Dual to singel

PureCRXtasy: so single is only vacuum

turboeditsupport: NO more boost

turboeditsupport: yes...single is NA

SpenserHMT: haha, NA=pussy shit.

PureCRXtasy: kinda like my car now ;-)

turboeditsupport: boost comes back

PureCRXtasy: my boost gauge only goes backwards

turboeditsupport: now...under ROM options

turboeditsupport: there are many

turboeditsupport: not ALL of them are supported...but they are there for future support

turboeditsupport: Launch Control is supported i believe

SpenserHMT: supported as in, you guys don't cover that shit, or as in they don't work

turboeditsupport: they dont work

SpenserHMT: what works and what doesn't

xhomemadeturbox: So how can you say it's supported?

turboeditsupport: these 'features' are HARD CODED into the ROM

xhomemadeturbox: It's there, but it doesn't work?

PureCRXtasy: he should disable the controls so they aren't selectable

turboeditsupport: TurboEdit...just turns them off or on

turboeditsupport: its doesnt do anything if you try and change it

xhomemadeturbox: ok,

SI KVA: so whats working and whats not?

xhomemadeturbox: So, if/when thye come out with it, how do I update, do I DL the latest version of TE or get new "bins"?

Synopt1c has entered the room.

PureCRXtasy: kinda both

dobinator4 has left the room.

xhomemadeturbox: Damn....

PureCRXtasy: depending on what has changed

turboeditsupport: the new features will be in the ROM

turboeditsupport: Jason has left spots for them

xhomemadeturbox: The ROM is the bin, correct?

SpenserHMT: as long as it stays 2.0.* you can use the same bins right

turboeditsupport: SPense?

turboeditsupport: what do you mean?

turboeditsupport: let me go through what they are

SpenserHMT: well back when it was 1.0, and 2.0 came out, the old 1.0 shit didn't work on 2.0

turboeditsupport: we can ask Jason what is and what is not supported right now later

turboeditsupport: true

turboeditsupport: 1.x no longer works

SpenserHMT: will this happen in the future?

PureCRXtasy: could

turboeditsupport: sorta...not really

turboeditsupport: but could, yes

SpenserHMT: ok

Revtec2121: lol

turboeditsupport: just keep up to date!

Revtec2121: yea..it's free

turboeditsupport: ok, so REV limits

turboeditsupport: Hot...Cold...Idle

turboeditsupport: cold(when car is warming up)

turboeditsupport: Hot...(car fully warm)

turboeditsupport: idle (target idle

turboeditsupport: launch control...

Revtec2121: why is that blank now?

turboeditsupport: set to RPM

turboeditsupport: whats Blank?

Revtec2121: idle?

blundelld has entered the room.

blundelld: sup bitches

turboeditsupport: its not 'supported'

turboeditsupport: shut up slut

blundelld: use ng5

PureCRXtasy: Hey Dave.. repeater rules

blundelld: ues ng5

blundelld: use ng5 is all I have to say

blundelld: I just ran around on it

SpenserHMT: we are

b18c1tWiNTs69 has entered the room.

b18c1tWiNTs69: Thank you

turboeditsupport: k

blundelld: no more hole at NA/boost transition

blundelld: much nicer

blundelld: :-)

turboeditsupport: dont fuck with fuel multipliers

SpenserHMT: what are they?

blundelld: internal stuff

turboeditsupport: yeah

b18c1tWiNTs69: Turbo, can you burn obd2?

xhomemadeturbox: What are you runnign NG5 on?

turboeditsupport: you dont need to know really

b18c1tWiNTs69: or just obd1 and 0

SpenserHMT: k

turboeditsupport: b18c

turboeditsupport: no this is strictly OBD0

xhomemadeturbox: How much boost?

b18c1tWiNTs69: ok

turboeditsupport: xhome

turboeditsupport: ....

b18c1tWiNTs69: no obd1? turboedit is ONLY obd0?

turboeditsupport: yes

b18c1tWiNTs69: kl

b18c1tWiNTs69: kk*

blundelld: 7psi.  I need to retune the boost map complete

turboeditsupport: k...im explaing the options

xhomemadeturbox: So the boost map is shit?

xhomemadeturbox: sorry

blundelld: its whatever you make it

blundelld: I had the code all fucked up in NG1-G4

turboeditsupport: Dave....which ROM options are working/not working at the moment?

blundelld: its finally fixed so the table headings correspond to reality

blundelld: um

blundelld: uh

blundelld: I'd have to ask Jason

turboeditsupport: k

blundelld: I know what works in the ROM

turboeditsupport: he'll be back

blundelld: but I'm not sure if TE has hooks to them all

blundelld: vtec is a definately no-no

turboeditsupport: does anyone have questions about the options?

blundelld: the only big no- no right now

turboeditsupport: soon tho ;-)

xhomemadeturbox: What is the max size injectors?

PureCRXtasy: is 2 and 3 bar map supported yet?

turboeditsupport: Max fuel injectors....are whatever you can run

blundelld: um oh yeah

SpenserHMT: what is check engine light options?

xhomemadeturbox: cool

SNPTuningAA: so no FTL right now?

blundelld: I was gonna do that.... working on 2 / 3bar map roms now

blundelld: gimme 20min or so

turboeditsupport: 2-3 bar soon

PureCRXtasy: ok

turboeditsupport: Dave....check engine lights?

b18c1tWiNTs69: Man, I have nooo idea what some of these options......Launch control, fuel multipliers....map sensor sizing

b18c1tWiNTs69: options are*

turboeditsupport: FTL is Launch Control

SI KVA: Are we gonna move to tuning? Like how to start from scratch, give a scenerio, and show us how?

turboeditsupport: yes

turboeditsupport: next

blundelld: :-)

b18c1tWiNTs69: Awesome

blundelld: 1sec

SpenserHMT: do DOHC zc, 10 psi, wink wink

b18c1tWiNTs69: Do a obd0 z6 with a t3 running 10psi

b18c1tWiNTs69: haha

turboeditsupport: i want Dave to answer what the check engine lights option does

turboeditsupport: im not getting into specific engine combos

xhomemadeturbox: Yes, please don't

turboeditsupport: k...last thing before tuning

turboeditsupport: RPT or real time programming

turboeditsupport: two ways to do it

b18c1tWiNTs69: Hey, turbo, How easy s it to convert obd2->obd0? What about obd2->1?

b18c1tWiNTs69: is it*

turboeditsupport: cant convert from 2 - 0

turboeditsupport: 2 -1

turboeditsupport: 0 -1

PureCRXtasy: get a harness

b18c1tWiNTs69: Okay, thanks

turboeditsupport: k

turboeditsupport:  RPT

Revtec2121: neeeeeeeext

b18c1tWiNTs69: Sorry for the newb questions ;-)

turboeditsupport: programming on the fly....while the car is running

turboeditsupport: why do we want this?

turboeditsupport: cause its easier

SpenserHMT: lol

turboeditsupport: and you can see changes happen instantaneously

Revtec2121: ok, wait...you need that max322 blah blah for this right?

turboeditsupport: basically...for the ROMulator

turboeditsupport: no

blundelld: check engine lights?

turboeditsupport: Transtronics Pocket Rom

Revtec2121: awwww shiet

blundelld: I've never seen that option - don't know what its for

blundelld: the PGMFI RTP board will be supported soon

turboeditsupport: k...check engine lights arent an option!

blundelld: and maybe another option up my sleeve

turboeditsupport: yes...i will get to that

blundelld: Chris: just means that I don't use it ;-)

turboeditsupport: its $180

blundelld: Jason might be up to tricks

turboeditsupport: you hook it up to your ECU where a chip would go

turboeditsupport: it pretends its a chip

turboeditsupport: its an Emulator

xhomemadeturbox: So how does that know what kind of maps to run?

SpenserHMT: and you hook your Laptop up to it?

turboeditsupport: the other end plugs into a serial port of a laptop

Revtec2121: nice...do you leave it in permantely?

xhomemadeturbox: If the chip is gone?

turboeditsupport: wait

xhomemadeturbox: k

turboeditsupport: when its connected to your laptop and the ECU in the car

turboeditsupport: you start up TurboEdit

turboeditsupport: car is still off at this point

turboeditsupport: theres turboedit

blundelld: deez nuts

turboeditsupport: tools Real Time Programm

blundelld: ;-)

turboeditsupport: i dont have one hooked up so its not going to work for me

turboeditsupport: but....

turboeditsupport: you waht turboedit see to thourhg  the laptop to the ROMulator

turboeditsupport: using Turboedit

turboeditsupport: you start the car

turboeditsupport: and go....

turboeditsupport: as you go you can make change right in the turboedit program

StreetriceR: yo

StreetriceR: im back

turboeditsupport: COLORS!!!!!

turboeditsupport: quiet

StreetriceR: installed 80% of my turbo kit

turboeditsupport: quiet

xhomemadeturbox: OMG stop

Revtec2121: STFU

SNPTuningAA: will the RTP board have any advantages over the romulator?

turboeditsupport: cheaper

SpenserHMT: question...?

turboeditsupport: yes?

turboeditsupport: spense

turboeditsupport: SNP....you will also be able to datalog throuhg the RTP board

SpenserHMT: could you just hook up the romulator, and the laptop, and just run your car(drive around, race etc) like that, that way you don't have to buy a burner and chips

turboeditsupport: so you will only use up one serial port (or usb)

turboeditsupport: you could

SNPTuningAA: sweet that was my next Q about the datalogging

blundelld: well, not quite Chris - the RTP board is just a rom replacement.  to use it, you need a serial connection to the ECU that you can also use to datalog

turboeditsupport: but the ROMulator only 'remembers' for about 24 hours

blundelld: the RTP 0.1/0.2 has zero support for serial interfaces

turboeditsupport: yes....but you will do everything through the one serial port

blundelld: you need that on your own

blundelld: correct

SpenserHMT: ok

turboeditsupport: spense....

turboeditsupport: you get me

turboeditsupport: ?

turboeditsupport: sweet

SpenserHMT: yes

blundelld: theoretically, you could also have self-modifying ROMs with the PGMFI RTP board.

turboeditsupport: you would have to have a laptop to start up your car daily

blundelld: i.e. long term fuel trim

turboeditsupport: that too

turboeditsupport: ..thanks

turboeditsupport: Self Tuning ECU

SpenserHMT: yeah, but thats no big deal, laptops are cheap

turboeditsupport: cheaper than a burner?

xhomemadeturbox: If thet battery dies, you're fucked

turboeditsupport: $65 or maybe less for a burner and chips

SpenserHMT: ok, I see. lets move on

xhomemadeturbox: yes...

Revtec2121: got the moates for 75

Revtec2121: usb support

turboeditsupport: so basically you go around with the RTP board or the ROMulator tuning all day

SI KVA: so you drive around making changes while you car runs off the "map" that you have open on your laptop. You find what you want and then you burn it?

blundelld: I've heard good things about the moates USB burner

turboeditsupport: and then at the end of the day, you burn your 'tune' to a chip

SpenserHMT: that sounds so awesome

SNPTuningAA: arrrgh...yeah I heard about it after buying a Batronix :'(

turboeditsupport: yes SI

Synopt1c has left the room.

blundelld: the only difference between PGMFI RTP board + romulator is that the PGMFI RTP board is permanent - you never need to burn it to a chip (although you can)

turboeditsupport: k....questions....?

xhomemadeturbox: So, you would make the corrections, save that to a bin? and burn that to a chip? Correct?

My15psiZC has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: yes xhome

SpenserHMT: blundelld, please explain the PGMFI RTP BOARD

Revtec2121: by the way...the dude from moates got my burner to me in 3 days

xhomemadeturbox: ............

blundelld: the PGMFI RTP board is a small board that allows the ECU to modify the ROM while the ECU is running

leedblows has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: its like a computer circuit board xhome

xhomemadeturbox: So you would need that along with the romulator?

blundelld: the PGMFI RTP board has a chipp like a ROM that can store the program

turboeditsupport: you have to Solder it together yourself

turboeditsupport: no

My15psiZC: how come the chip in my pm6 has only 24 pins?

blundelld: it is a replacement for the ROM

blundelld: it is a replacement for the ROMulator

SpenserHMT: You mean the cars ECU modifies the ROM on it's own?

turboeditsupport: if you didnt want to buy a chip and burner

turboeditsupport: you would get the RTP board

turboeditsupport: Spense...eventually

JessicaP 411 has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: we havent gotten that far yet

blundelld: SpenserHMT

xhomemadeturbox: So you can burn with the RTP board?

turboeditsupport: it burns itself

turboeditsupport: from a computer

blundelld: well...

PureCRXtasy: not exactly

blundelld: you need to put a program in it initially

leedblows: ala Zdyne style

turboeditsupport: blah

blundelld: you need a ROM burner to get it started

SpenserHMT: shit

blundelld: after it is started, you can just rollwith it

blundelld: I'll pre-program chips :-)

turboeditsupport: if i have it my way....you are gonna be a production line

blundelld: I don't care

turboeditsupport: :-)

turboeditsupport: k....so tuning basics

My15psiZC: damn I hate being late

blundelld: I wouldn't recommend it to someone without a ROM burner

turboeditsupport: and I am giving you all HOME WORK!!!!

SpenserHMT: ok

turboeditsupport: hahahahah

xhomemadeturbox: So I would just need a chip that has a TE burn on it and use the RTP to make adjustments?

blundelld: for the simple reason that you need a ROM burner to fix something if you fuck it up too bad

turboeditsupport: no xhome

PureCRXtasy: Dave has anyone considered getting a batch of PCB's made for the RTP board?

blundelld: xhomeadeturbox: you got hte right idea

turboeditsupport: Pure....

blundelld: I have 85 PCBs on my coffeetable

blundelld: $10 each or $35 for full kits

turboeditsupport: lets try to keep this general

SpenserHMT: ok, so it's a given that anyone running TE should have a rom burner?

PureCRXtasy: ok.. sorry

turboeditsupport: yes Spense

blundelld: Spencer, unless you like to live dangerously - yes

SpenserHMT: lol

turboeditsupport: k....basic tuning concepts

turboeditsupport: please ask questions at the end

SpenserHMT: everyone shut up!!

turboeditsupport: Volumetric Efficiency is the key to it ALL

blundelld: I'll be around for questions for a while

StreetriceR has left the room.

turboeditsupport: search on Google for Volumetric Efficiency and how it relates to a car engine...for better understanding later

StreetriceR has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: basically...your car is a big air pump

turboeditsupport: it sucks in air

Revtec2121: moving air is the key to making power

turboeditsupport: shush

Revtec2121: lol

turboeditsupport: and engine also needs fuel

turboeditsupport: this is where we get Air to Fuel ratio

turboeditsupport: AFRs

turboeditsupport: your engine likes to burn at 14.7 AFR

blundelld: wait

blundelld: 14.7 is a compromise

StreetriceR: n/a right?

turboeditsupport: im explaing

PureCRXtasy: 14:7:1

xhomemadeturbox: StreetriceR, you're pissing people off

turboeditsupport: shush

blundelld: best fuel economy = ~16.5-19 depending on head design, detonation characteristics, etc.

turboeditsupport: dave

blundelld: however, EGTs go up and NOx goes up

JessicaP 411: Dave: Too "geeky".

blundelld: and the EPA comes and beats you up.

PureCRXtasy: 14.7 is stoichiometric

turboeditsupport: 14.7 mean 14.7 molecules of OXYGEN and 1 molecule of Fuel (pump gas)

JessicaP 411: Dave: I want to sign upf or youtuning class though. ;-)

turboeditsupport: dave will pick up where i leave off

StreetriceR has left the room.

turboeditsupport: in 10 minutes

blundelld: I'm sticking around after Chris's bedtime :-)

turboeditsupport: :-)

JessicaP 411: Awesome..

blundelld: sorry...

blundelld: continue

turboeditsupport: k....14.7 is the generally acceptable ratio for NA

turboeditsupport: 14.7 does not necessaryily mean SAFE

StreetriceR has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: for fuel economy...like Dave states...15.0-16 (IMO) works...as long as you arent hammering on the petal all the time....this is steady cruising (maybe...)

turboeditsupport: but becuase of emissions....HONDA and everyone else, try to keep it at around 14.7

StreetriceR: question

turboeditsupport: no

turboeditsupport: wait

turboeditsupport: the ECU is the brain behind everything

turboeditsupport: it reads in a bunch of sensors

turboeditsupport: and it outputs signals

turboeditsupport: its a brain

turboeditsupport: it looks at a bunch of data coming in

turboeditsupport: and says...i need to do this, to make it correct

turboeditsupport: for example

turboeditsupport: the ECU looks at the MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure)

turboeditsupport: and it sees for instance -16 inches of Mercury

turboeditsupport: this means that the engine is trying to suck in X amount of air molecules

StreetriceR has left the room.

turboeditsupport: the engine knows this primarily by the MAP sensor...

turboeditsupport: and uses a couple of other sensors to calculate the EXACT number of air molecules entering the engine at any given time

JessicaP 411: rffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

blundelld: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

blundelld: yawn

blundelld: :-P

turboeditsupport: the nerds at uneasy

StreetriceR has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: are

My15psiZC: lol

xhomemadeturbox: OMG

Revtec2121: i like the basics

turboeditsupport: exactly....

SpenserHMT: who here isn't beyond the basics?

Revtec2121: streetricer, in or out damn it

xhomemadeturbox: Yeah, really

StreetriceR: dude, i'm having computer problems

StreetriceR: calm down

Revtec2121: STFU

StreetriceR: and its not my fault u guys couldnt ready my normal text

xhomemadeturbox: It's more like brain problems

turboeditsupport: so when it figures it out....it knwos that it has to make the injectors fire enough FUEL to make the engine happy

PureCRXtasy has left the room.

turboeditsupport: so then the ECU looks at these tables we can see in TurboEdit

turboeditsupport: it sees the map is at -16 and the car is running at 3500 RPMS....it fires X amount of fuel

turboeditsupport: and it does this....how many times in one second Dave?

turboeditsupport: 60---600?

Revtec2121: can you put that map up on screen

turboeditsupport: that?

blundelld: many

JessicaP 411: (I just looked back, did you explain interpolation?)

turboeditsupport: no i didnt

blundelld: it varies depending on how fast the motor spins

blundelld: the faster the motor spins, the slower it measures MAP

turboeditsupport: that is beyond these few right now i think

turboeditsupport: dave...take over

blundelld: however, for all intents and purposes, you can assume it measures MAP 100 times/second

turboeditsupport: next week, same time same place?

blundelld: RPM about the same

My15psiZC: yes please

turboeditsupport: everyone?

blundelld: werd.  if anyone wants to use the reflector, they just need to get ahold of me

JessicaP 411: I can be back same time next week.

xhomemadeturbox: Sounds good, thank alot:-)

blundelld: and have VNC installed

turboeditsupport: i will leave TE up on my screen...i have to go!

SNPTuningAA: nice job!!!

Revtec2121: hellyea

turboeditsupport: Dave will continue to explain Tuning

JessicaP 411: I'm going ot start a thread on HMT about the class, I want you all to post comments on what you thought...  thanks guys.

turboeditsupport: please post your thoughts up on HMT or whereever...so we get more people to use TurboEdit

xhomemadeturbox: I learned something so I'm happy

Revtec2121: mee too

turboeditsupport: sweet...im happy too then

blundelld: I'm happy three :-)

SpenserHMT: ok well blundar, whats to be covered today?

turboeditsupport: go TEST NG5 bitcheds!!!!

xhomemadeturbox: I'd love to

StreetriceR: and seriously u guys need to chill on me, my computer kept shutting aim off

blundelld: I just got done tuning my car to pass emissions

StreetriceR: and i didnt know that my font wouldnt appear on your screen, it wasnt to piss u guys off

xhomemadeturbox: Back to TE talk.......

blundelld: this probably is something some of you will have to do

StreetriceR: hey guys question

StreetriceR: anyone running techedge 1.5?

PureCRXtasy has entered the room.

leedblows: I have a friend running 1.5

xhomemadeturbox: ???????

Revtec2121: yea, what is techedge?

xhomemadeturbox: Wideband

PureCRXtasy: wb 02

StreetriceR: yeah, i had a video of mine in operation, the server isnt working right now though

StreetriceR: sucks, i woulda showed u guys

StreetriceR: but my AFr's are really bouncy

xhomemadeturbox: Are we done with this class?

blundelld: I was going to get into advanced topics

StreetriceR: i'm using  a palm to log and display, any ideas?

xhomemadeturbox: ok cool

blundelld: if there is interest?

xhomemadeturbox: Yes yes

PureCRXtasy: of course

Revtec2121: yes, although I might not comprehend

blundelld: tuning vacuum maps is tricky

Revtec2121: lol

blundelld: the main thing working against you at this point is that you have a lot of things interfering

leedblows: <--patiently listening.  Im down for some overly geeky advanced shit yo'

blundelld: in almost all of the vacuum maps, you will be in closed loop

blundelld: this means the ECU is fucking with the fuel trim in the tables

blundelld: essentially whenever it feels like it

blundelld: so how do you get around this?

blundelld: 1. Make sure the car is warmed up fully

blundelld: 2. try to use the highest gear you can (vaccuum is hard to keep stable in a high gear - too much load = high vac or boost)

blundelld: aside from that, there are two ways to play

blundelld: 1. unplug O2 sensor

blundelld: 2. run with O2 connector

blundelld: I did my car both ways, and got different results.

xhomemadeturbox: 02 connector?

blundelld: pause in explanation of vac tuning for role of O2 sensor

blundelld: O2 sensor is the most influential on AFR

blundelld: ECT (coolant) and IAT (intake air) will have some effect

blundelld: esp. if very cold or warm

blundelld: but day to day, the O2 is what rules fuel trim

JessicaP 411 has left the room.

blundelld: nothing influences closed loop more

xhomemadeturbox: I was just wondering what you were referring to as an "02 connector"

blundelld: oops (typo) connected

xhomemadeturbox: oh shit...

blundelld: the diversion was good tho

xhomemadeturbox: ok

blundelld: if you run with the O2 unplugged

blundelld: or your O2 is totally shot

blundelld: the ECU will throw a O2 sensor code

blundelld: this applies to the NG code as well as stock code

TwIN2TuRboD has entered the room.

blundelld: once you have a code 1 (O2 code) the ECU will change both fuel and timing

blundelld: it will pretty much make a "worst case" assumption, and throw the car to the richest correction setting at all times

TwIN2TuRboD has left the room.

blundelld: it also advances the timing ~2 degrees

blundelld: but I'd have to check on that from my notes...

blundelld: so

leedblows: 2* accross the whole map. period?

StreetriceR: is that to make up for hte added fuel?

blundelld: tuning cruising (high vacuum) with the O2 unplugged is going to be tricky because the ECU is continually bouncing the AFRs richer

blundelld: leed: anywhere it applies more fuel

blundelld: Streertricer: yes

blundelld: remember tho, the ECU DOES NOT apply fuel trim all the time

blundelld: that's why you'll see your cheapie AF guages "bounce"

blundelld: rich-lean-rich-lean

blundelld: so... if you unplug your O2 sensor, remember the wideband will sometimes read richer than your table entry but NEVER LEANER

leedblows: Does that hold true for OBD1 as well?

blundelld: leed: nope.  try 6002 + 6011 combined ;-)

blundelld: 6011 = main debug mode

blundelld: 6002 = fuel trim debug mode

blundelld: 6005 might also help too

blundelld: JDM P30 203 code

leedblows: cool cool

blundelld: I didn't say that btw

leedblows: ;-)

blundelld: good.

blundelld: anyways

blundelld: 14.7 may be stoichiometric

xhomemadeturbox: WTF

blundelld: but I find the car runs a LOT happier (and you get better gas mileage) if you tune for closer to 15.5-16 AFRs in high vacuum

xhomemadeturbox: What is that 6011, 6002 talk?

Revtec2121: OBD1 Stuff

xhomemadeturbox: oh

blundelld: high vacuum = 18 - 25in

blundelld: Hondas like to run leaner than the EPA wants them to

blundelld: I got 26mpg out of the turbo LS last tank

blundelld: thats city / highway mixed

blundelld: with lots of beating

blundelld: the reason?  AFRs under cruise

blundelld: people spend a ton of time tuning WOT

blundelld: and boost

blundelld: and whatnot

StreetriceR: street tuning is key ;-)

turboeditsupport: -18 to -25 VAC....doesnt most DETONATION occur at lower LOAD?

blundelld: good point chris

blundelld: yes and no is the answer to that

blundelld: detonation is premature ignition

blundelld: i.e. things go boom before a spark

blundelld: statistically speaking

My15psiZC: but can it not also be caused by timing, or not enough fuel?

blundelld has left the room.

xhomemadeturbox: Ummmm....

blundelld has entered the room.

Revtec2121: hey is anybody "saving this" conversation?

blundelld: trillian logs

blundelld: sorry.... I'm stealing 802.11 froma neighbor

Revtec2121: ??

blundelld: :-)

blundelld: back now

StreetriceR: mine is

blundelld: ok

StreetriceR: so if u need it lemme know

StreetriceR: but i wasnt here since the beginning..

blundelld: sigh.

blundelld: trying to explain chem.

blundelld: sigh.

blundelld: detonation occurs when the activation energy of combustion of the air/fuel mixture is less than its kinetic energy

blundelld: kinetic energy = heat

blundelld: when you compress something, you raise its kinetic energy - ideal gas law

blundelld: (side note: difference between ideal heat change + actual = turbocharger efficiency)

blundelld: so detonation is what happens when the activation energy of combustion is low

blundelld: what determines the activation energy of combustion? 

blundelld: primarily air fuel ratio

blundelld: the more air, the more oxygen

blundelld: the more oxygen, the more statistically likely you are to have an oxygen bump into a gasoline molecule the wrong way

blundelld: and BAM

blundelld: detonation

blundelld: (somewhat oversimplified)

My15psiZC: lol

blundelld: the reason I don't worry about high AFRs at high vacuum is twofold

blundelld: 1. high vacuum = high VACUUM i.e. LOTS OF SPACE BETWEEN MOLECULES.  Lots of space = less risk of collision, even under compression

blundelld: 2. honda heads are designed for high compression / high vacuum - its what they do well (fuel economy)

blundelld: you could run a honda at 18-19:1 AFRs at idle and cruise (18, 20, 22, 24 inHg) and it would run well

blundelld: its not a wise idea for a turbocharged car for one reason

blundelld: EGTs - exhaust gas temperatures

blundelld: EGTs tell you a lot

blundelld: if you keep your AFR constant

blundelld: advance timing

blundelld: the EGTs will generally go down until you make peak power

blundelld: plateau for a minute

blundelld: and then go up rapidly

blundelld: if you keep your timing constant

blundelld: and lean out your AFRs

blundelld: you'll generally see EGTs drop until peak power production

blundelld: and then they will go up up up up up as you get leaner

blundelld: EGTs are useful as a tuning tool

blundelld: but they can also be DESTRUCTIVE to your turbo

blundelld: you do not want EGTs higher than 1500-1600F for any period of time

blundelld: or bad stuff (tm) will happen

SpenserHMT: is a EGT guage a necesity?

blundelld: think: cracked housings, cracked impellers

xhomemadeturbox: Depending on where the probe is located.....

blundelld: EGT is NOT a necessity

blundelld: but you can learn as much from it as a wideband

blundelld: particularly if you have both

blundelld: cause if its not your fuel that causes a EGT change, it is your timing

blundelld: no other option really

SpenserHMT: so it a "wonderful" tunning tool then/>?

blundelld: very difficult to use right

SpenserHMT: ok

blundelld: because BOTH AFR and Timing affect EGTs

SpenserHMT: Timing more so?

blundelld: widebands are much easier to use because they read 85% fuel 15% timing

blundelld: EGTs are more like 60% timing 40% AFR

blundelld: side note: you will see your AFRs lean when you advance timing and richen when you retard timing

blundelld: very very very slight change

blundelld: but worth remembering for tuning

blundelld: so

blundelld: if you want to get good fuel economy

blundelld: and you DON'T give a fuck about NOx emissions

blundelld: tune for ~16:1 AFR at 18,20,22,24+ in Hg

blundelld: if you have to worry about NOx emissions, then aim for 15:1

blundelld: NOx emissions happen from high EGTs

blundelld: keep EGTs down, you can run as lean as you want and not fuck up motor / emissons

blundelld: any questions? :-)

SpenserHMT: where can i get a wideband//?

SpenserHMT: for cheap ofcourse!!

xhomemadeturbox: How is it that you say EGT measures 60% timing and 40% AFR?

blundelld: I got mine from Jayson @ forced air for $300 shipped

leedblows: Contact ForcedAir on HMT if

blundelld: xhomemade: I say that because you can see timing changes easier with an EGT than wideband

blundelld: BUT you will see AFR changes if you leave timing alone

blundelld: so you see both

xhomemadeturbox: oh, so that is just a generlaization?

blundelld: yes.

xhomemadeturbox: ok

blundelld: I have a question for you guys

blundelld: look back at what I said about detonation

blundelld: and why it happens

SpenserHMT: you want us to tell you why it happens?

blundelld: tell me where in the table you think detonation is the biggest concern

SpenserHMT: BOOST!!

blundelld: why?

xhomemadeturbox: Alot of combusted air

blundelld: elaborate

SpenserHMT: cause thats when there is more air=more oxygen

blundelld: good spenser

xhomemadeturbox: Compressed

blundelld: do you know the rules for RPM and detonation'

blundelld: ?

SpenserHMT: the higher the RPm, the more detenation is liekly to occur?

blundelld: not really actually!

SpenserHMT: shit.

My15psiZC: I thought it was opposite

blundelld: very low RPM is the mot dangerous reason

blundelld: why?

SpenserHMT: why?

blundelld: think back

leedblows: off idle tip in

blundelld: more oxygen gives the fuel more of an opportunity to bump into someone the wrong way

My15psiZC: low rpm and high load situations

blundelld: but we are thinking statistically her

blundelld: low RPM = more time between combustion events

blundelld: more time = more time on compression stroke

SpenserHMT: O

blundelld: if chance of detonation = oxygen density * time

blundelld: low RPM increases time

blundelld: so you're most likely to detonate at low RPMs

SpenserHMT: that is crazy shit.

blundelld: the reason high RPMs get a bad rep is detection

blundelld: the motor is quiet at low RPMs, so you can hear what is going on easily

blundelld: at high RPMs, the motor is loud as hell - both internally and externally

blundelld: the sound of detonation is much more easily masked at high RPMs

blundelld: trivia: OBD1 honda knock board is turned off when vtec engages

SpenserHMT: I"ve never heard detenation, or a ping, what exactly does it sound like?

blundelld: why? signal / noise ratio is already so bad it can't work

leedblows: quite possibly why Honda goes so soft on WOT timing <4000ish

blundelld: there was a nice wavform on PGMFI that Tekphobia posted

blundelld: very true leed

blundelld: everybody look at a stock honda ROM

xhomemadeturbox: What does that knock sensor do when it detects and abnormal amount of knock?

blundelld: look at the top right corner (LOW RPM, high MAP - detonation city)

leedblows: no timing yo

blundelld: see how the values drop very suddenly from the rest of the map?

blundelld: the ECU retards the timing (excessively - even for 87 gas) there to try to prevent detonation

blundelld: xhomadeturbo: the ECU will retard timing to try to prevent detonation

blundelld has left the room.

blundelld has entered the room.

blundelld: sorry... bumped cable again

My15psiZC: it happens :-)

blundelld: my fucking neighbor unplugged the roadrunner we share

blundelld: or tripped over the power

blundelld: so I'm over at my girl's suign 802.11 wireless on the roof

blundelld: :-)

blundelld: there are like 4 or 5 open access points within range

blundelld: quite nice.

blundelld: she be sleepin

blundelld: lazy bones

My15psiZC: lol

blundelld: wore her out :-)

blundelld: anyways

SpenserHMT: lol

blundelld: anyone curious how the two table thing works / and or how to make bins for non-honda map sensors?

SpenserHMT: is that supported?

blundelld: yes / no

SpenserHMT: the 2/3 bar sensor?

blundelld: Jason + I are working on having full support within TE

blundelld: right now it would work fine with one exception

SpenserHMT: which is?

blundelld: the table headings would not read right in boost

StreetriceR: does he take donations, i feel like supporting

blundelld: hehheheh

StreetriceR: or whoever

StreetriceR: :-)

blundelld: if you feel like donating to pgmfi, send to pgmfi@pgmfi.org

leedblows: Adding timing back in after torque peak make sense to you?   WOT in boost.

StreetriceR: will do

StreetriceR: thanks

blundelld: leed: no

blundelld: after you make peak torque

blundelld: fuel should start to drop

blundelld: and as fuel comes out, timing comes out too (more retard)

blundelld: I take out about 1 degree for every 500 rpm past peak

blundelld: btw

blundelld: this is a PERFECT example of a time to use EGT

blundelld: nail the AFRs up top

blundelld: set the timing static

blundelld: i.e. 16 degrees or 24 degrees or whatever

blundelld: leave it be

blundelld: do a run with the EGTs

blundelld: watch where the EGTs start to rocket

blundelld: THAT is where you start pulling timing

blundelld: or shortly before

blundelld: make sense?

SpenserHMT: hell yea

leedblows: perfectly

My15psiZC: yes

blundelld: you have to nail the AFRs first tho

blundelld: if you don't, the EGT is going to be reading AFRs not timing

SpenserHMT: and whats a good AFR?

SNPTuningAA has left the room.

SpenserHMT: in boost

leedblows: IMHO I like 12.0

xhomemadeturbox: So if you have a AFR of ~12.1:1, and your EGT jumps at 4000rpm at WOT, you should deduct timing at 4000 and above

leedblows: It makes me sleep better at night.

blundelld: xhomemade: YES

blundelld: boosted AFR is a matter of safety + EGT

blundelld: leave timing alone, lean AFR from 12:0 to 13:0

blundelld: er

blundelld: 12:1 to 13:1

blundelld: you'll see EGTs SKYROCKET

blundelld: several hundred degrees, minimum

blundelld: you'll make more power too

blundelld: but.........

blundelld: and if you don't have your timing SPOT FUCKING ON....

blundelld: 12 is pretty safe

blundelld: 12.5 is a little less safe

blundelld: 13 is the limit on pump gas IMHO

blundelld: 93 pump gas

blundelld: anything higher than 13 is asking for detonation

leedblows: In my experience when you are at the limit of pump gas (14-15psi in my case)  A/F's in the 13's deff. detonate.

blundelld: thanks leed - ive only played with low boost at this point :-)

blundelld: leed, what combination was that 14-15 psi on?

blundelld: I'm curious about compression, piston and head

blundelld: cam too...

leedblows: b16.  usdmITR pistons.  9.1CR

leedblows: ITR cams.

leedblows: 9.7

blundelld: how did you get CR down with USDM ITR pistons?

blundelld: did you gear the cams?

My15psiZC: I have run 15 psi on my stock black cover zc I think the c/r is 9.6:1

leedblows: less dome.  Yes on the gears.

blundelld: hey ZC that brings us to a very important point

blundelld: DO NOT EVER BOOST MORE THAN YOUR MAP SENSOR CAN HANDLE

blundelld: that is the easiest way to grenade a motor that you know

blundelld: stock map tops at ~10psi

blundelld: GM 2bar tops at ~15psi

blundelld: GM 3bar tops at ~29-30psi

blundelld: it is VERY unsafe

My15psiZC: got a part number for that 3 bar???

blundelld: its on the wiki

SpenserHMT: question: what cars do you get 3 bars/2bars?

My15psiZC: syclone?

leedblows: Turbo TransAm

blundelld: 2Bar is common

SpenserHMT: fuck

blundelld: pretty much any of the 2.2L chrysler stuff will have a 2Bar

StreetriceR: how come on FMU's people run more then 10+ psi on a stock map sensor

blundelld: ANY

StreetriceR: or am i missing something

SpenserHMT: i heard newer hondas use a 2 bar, this true?

xhomemadeturbox: Missing link

blundelld: Streetricer: you're missing the fact that the FMU is adding more fuel, not the ECU

StreetriceR: they dont even use the map huh

StreetriceR: yeah i see..

blundelld: Spenser, false.  most obd1 sensors read 10-10.5psi.  minor difference

xhomemadeturbox: but not with a missing link

blundelld: ht emissing link limits the voltage the map sensor puts out

xhomemadeturbox: Nm, I thought you were talking to someone else

blundelld: zener diode on steroids

SpenserHMT: lol

blundelld: in a pretty case

blundelld: leed, I know you have interest in this...

blundelld: anyone feel like a brief tour of the boost code?

xhomemadeturbox: ok

StreetriceR: yes!

My15psiZC: yes

blundelld: will contain an explanation of using 2/3/5/20bar map sensors

blundelld: the boost code present in NG5 is an evolution of an earlier idea.

blundelld: its relatively simple.

leedblows: Assuming the last colums are tuned for the boost level achieved over the stock limit, and ignoring the risk of diaphragm rupture.  What are the other concerns of running a shit ton of boost on the stock map.

blundelld: leed:

blundelld: 15 psi = 10psi to a stock MAp

blundelld: you have a lot more air

blundelld: and no more fuel

blundelld: because the ECU thinks there is only 10psi NOT 15psi there

blundelld: more air less fuel = boom

leedblows: Assuming the last colums are tuned for the boost level achieved  :-)

blundelld: ahh...

blundelld: and assuming the diaphram holds up

blundelld: none.

SpenserHMT: just get a 2 bar, haha

leedblows: Thats waht I came to also.   

blundelld: you'll bog

blundelld: go rich prematurely

blundelld: but that's not that different from NG4

blundelld: I feel almost embarassed by NG4

SpenserHMT: lol

blundelld: seriously

xhomemadeturbox: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you cannot tune TE for ~15psi. You have to add the fuel to the last column to compensate for the missing table, right?

blundelld: at this point xhomemade

blundelld: we're about to get into high boost

leedblows: The TurboZC on my last vid is SUPER low budget.  Which means stock map.  period

xhomemadeturbox: So it wouldn't matter if the MAP didn't read above ~10spi??

blundelld: leed: you can get 2bar for $10 at local junkyards

xhomemadeturbox: Oh, ok

blundelld: ok

blundelld: this next segment has the potential to get REALLY complicated

blundelld: if you get lost, please say stop

blundelld: ok?

xhomemadeturbox: oh shit

SpenserHMT: the values for boost are set? or are they changable?

xhomemadeturbox: stop

xhomemadeturbox: lol

leedblows: bring it on

blundelld: spenser, will be answered

blundelld: we are going to take a dive into the code a lil bit...

blundelld: I'll go over it in english first

My15psiZC: good plan

blundelld: and then I'll point out what corresponds with what in the code

SpenserHMT: go for launch

blundelld: the MAP sensor provides a pressure-related voltage

blundelld: the "rating" of the sensor is the pressure required to create theoretical max reading

blundelld: the theoretical max rating for ALL MAP sensors (well, almost) is 5v

blundelld: this means the range of a sensor is 0v to 5v

blundelld: 0v = the lowest vacuum you can imagine

blundelld: 5v = the highest pressure the sensor is rated at

blundelld: when the ECU reads the sensor, it does a 10 bit reading (1024 choices) and immediately rounds to 8bit (256 choices)

blundelld: (same for OBD0+OBD1 incidentally)

blundelld: what this means:

blundelld: sensor reads 0v ECU reads 0

blundelld: sensor reads 2.5v ECU reads 128 (halfway to 256)

blundelld: sensor reads 5v ECU reads 255 (maximum reading)

blundelld: everyone still with me?

My15psiZC: yeah

xhomemadeturbox: yes

SpenserHMT: yes

blundelld: ok

blundelld: the stock honda sensor is a ~1.8bar sensor

blundelld: you may want to look at this:

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/MapSensor

blundelld has left the room.

blundelld has entered the room.

blundelld: arrgh... fucking wireless fucking up again...

blundelld: sorry

My15psiZC: no problem

blundelld: so.

SpenserHMT: but whats the scale, can a map read .00... or just .0

blundelld: Key On Engine Off is an important meaure of a MAP sensor

blundelld: Spenser: we will get there.  Give me a minute

SpenserHMT: sorry

blundelld: Key On Engine Off is a reading of atmospheric pressure

blundelld: i.e. 0 psi

blundelld: stock MAP reads 2.85v

blundelld: GM 3 bar MAP reads 1.6v

blundelld: what does this mean for tuning and code?

blundelld: at EVERY PRESSURE (vacuum, etc.) the GM sensor will read less than a stock honda sensor

blundelld: this means the code has to be fudged to accomodate this.

blundelld: fortunately, the boys at honda don't use the "raw" sensor readings

SpenserHMT: fucking honda

blundelld: there is a routine in the stock ROM that takes the 0 -> 255 reading that the sensor puts out

blundelld: and then massages it into a form that is easy to use in a fuel table

blundelld: what they do:

blundelld: 1. if the reading is < 0C (12) throw a CEL

blundelld: 2. if the reading is greater than A1 (~1psi boost) throw a CEL

blundelld: 3. if the reading is between 13 (low voltage, high vacuum)  and 161 (~3v WOT), work with it

My15psiZC: so then the gm map sensor is plug and play?

blundelld: nope

blundelld: because at the same pressure

blundelld: the sensor reads a different voltage

xhomemadeturbox: You would have to change the whole map right?

My15psiZC: its sending different voltage

blundelld: xhomeade, kind of

blundelld: honda gave us a nice easy way out tho

blundelld: relatively speaking

blundelld: because they mess around with the MAP sensor signal

blundelld: and they don't use the raw signal

blundelld: they give us coders an opportunity to mess with the signal in a different way

blundelld: anyone here run the old ghettodyne boost roms?

leedblows: yup

xhomemadeturbox: Not I

SpenserHMT: nope

blundelld: what George did for the first GhD boost ROM was to insert a digital divider

blundelld: the ROM had a 5/8 divider added to the MAP processing signal

turboeditsupport: wow...you guys are still going!

blundelld: this let the whole thing operate just like it did before

blundelld: EXCEPT all the voltages looked 5/8 lower to the ECU

leedblows: software AFC hack

blundelld: letting the car see about 40% more air (~8 to 9psi) without CEL

blundelld: you got it leed

blundelld: same thing as the AFC, done in software

xhomemadeturbox: but it didn't fuck the timing up like the AFC, right?

blundelld: no, it would have fucked up timing like the AFC

blundelld: this is old code xhomemade

xhomemadeturbox: Ouch

turboeditsupport: Dave...i heard something one time that the AFC didnt affect timing at WOT?

turboeditsupport: is this true?

blundelld: naw...  AFC affects timing

turboeditsupport: but not at WOT

blundelld: anytime the AFC is adjusting

blundelld: it changes fuel and timing

leedblows: garbage in garbage out.  Mess with the MAP signal, mess with the timing/fuel

blundelld: because the ECU doesn't know how much air is really coming in

blundelld: it sees lesser MAP, uses lesser MAP timing as well as fuel

blundelld: you can't change fuel w/o changing timing with a piggyback

turboeditsupport: in code tho...you could say...IF TPS = WOT...dont fuck with timing

blundelld: unless the piggyback is manipulating the ignition out signal too (which is doesnt)

blundelld: Chris: not really, cause you'd have to rewrite a lot of code

blundelld: anyways

blundelld: move on with history

blundelld: the "try" series of ROMs were my first attempt to better than the 5/8 divider

blundelld: basically, the ROM has new code for what to do when the MAP signal is "too high"

blundelld: instead of throwing a CEL

blundelld: the code uses the difference between the MAP signal (182 for example)

blundelld: and what too high is (161 in stock code)

blundelld: the difference (21 in this case) is used along with a second fuel table

blundelld: to give more resolution for boost

blundelld: hence, the appearance of second tables in TE2

SpenserHMT: fucking genious.

xhomemadeturbox: Wow

blundelld: the way the boost values are found out is pretty simple

blundelld: there is a "Boost remap" table

blundelld: the difference between the values (21 in this case) is used to pick the 21st entry out of the REMAP table

blundelld: the remap table was made up in microsoft excel

blundelld: it is designed to "look like" a honda fuel table for NA

blundelld: the reason for this was that I was a lazy bitch and didn't feel like rewriting the fuel table code for a bigger table

blundelld: that is why the boost table is the same size as the NA table

blundelld: then I got to thinking...

blundelld: since I am writing the table

blundelld: I can make it do things that are kinda funny, like have a big gap between certain values

blundelld: and a small gap between other values

blundelld: if you take the values in the lookup table

blundelld: and divide them by 16

blundelld: that will tell you which column of the fuel table will be used

My15psiZC: ok you lost me

xhomemadeturbox: lol

blundelld: example:

leedblows: Does Blake do his code this way as well?  Two separate tables, or expanded tables.

blundelld: boost starts at 162

blundelld: Blake does expanded tables

blundelld: OBD1 is quite different

blundelld: scalars

blundelld: the column headings in OBD0 are coded into the ROM

blundelld: in OBD1, the column headings are in a table that can be edited

blundelld: so that the distance between columns is adjustable, from the factory

blundelld: to change column settings in OBD0, you need to either rewrite the main routine or play with the lookup tables

blundelld: the difference between NG1 and try 18 is that NG1 uses TWO lookup tables - one for NA + one for boost

leedblows: thanks.  No more interuptions from me :-)  

My15psiZC: lookup tables = the tables already present?

blundelld: instead of using math for NA

blundelld: lookup tables = REMAP tables

blundelld: gimme 1sec

blundelld: gettin hardcore here...

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/download.php/12,444/ng4.asm

blundelld: open that in a text editor

blundelld: wordpad, etc.

SpenserHMT: holy shit

blundelld: scroll down to about 4/5 the way through

blundelld: (or search for NA_REMAP)

blundelld: tell me when you're looking at the beginning of the NA remap table

blundelld: this will make some sense

blundelld: just be patient.

blundelld: :-)

blundelld: the NA remap table has all these entries like this:

leedblows: looking

leedblows: ready

blundelld: the left column is the "processed" value

blundelld: this is the value fed to the main fuel/timing routines

blundelld: the right column is the "raw" value

blundelld: raw value / 64 = MAP sensor voltage

blundelld: if you scroll through the table

blundelld: you'll see it starts linear

blundelld: 12 in 12 out

xhomemadeturbox: holy shit

blundelld: 24 in 24 out

blundelld: But

blundelld: there comes a point:

blundelld: all of a sudden, the "processed" value is increasing faster than the RAW value

blundelld: what is happening here is that the ECU is "stretching" the distance from one column to the next

blundelld: (actually, its compressing it)

CivicGriff has entered the room.

blundelld: remember, to figure out what column we are in

blundelld: take the value on the left

blundelld: and divide by 16

blundelld: ignoring any remainder

blundelld: if we increase the values faster, we will be in a new column faster

blundelld: if we increase the values slower, we will stay in the same column longer

SpenserHMT: lol, sounds simple/

blundelld: simple + complicated at same time :-\

blundelld: if you want to move columns around

blundelld: have more resolution around 4in Hg, for example

blundelld: you could do it by editing the columns, and having a rapid increase around 4in of hg

blundelld: likewise, if you want to have columns for 1, 2, 3 psi and then 9, 10, 11 psi with nothing in between

blundelld: you can do it.

blundelld: its all in the magic REMAP tables :-)

blundelld: so

blundelld: on a practical note

blundelld: how do you set things up for a non-honda map sensor?

blundelld: does eveyone have microsoft excel?

leedblows: yes

My15psiZC: yeah

CivicGriff: yup

blundelld: I have a spreadsheet for you to download

xhomemadeturbox: Hello :-)

blundelld: you will need the analysis toolpak installed

My15psiZC: lets have it

blundelld: ok, getting the link 1sec

CivicGriff: analysis toolpack?

blundelld: analysis toolpak = part of office

blundelld: go to Tools.... Add-ins

blundelld: you then need to check the two boxes for analysis toolpak

blundelld: it adds Hex2Dec and Dex2Hex

blundelld: so hex formulas can be converted back and forth

blundelld: finding link, brb

blundelld: uploading to server now

blundelld: 1sec

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/download.php/12,456/columncalc.xls

blundelld: there is the link

CivicGriff: damn, I need the disk for the add-ins

blundelld: :-(

blundelld: lemme see if I have the aanalysis one handy

blundelld: you runinng office 2000 or XP?

CivicGriff: lol...win 98

blundelld: nlonono

blundelld: OFFICE 97, 2000 or XP

blundelld: can run office xp on win95

CivicGriff: just have excel

My15psiZC: <<running xp pro :P

blundelld: help... about excel

blundelld: win2k / office 2k here

CivicGriff: dunno what "office setup" it's in

SpenserHMT: ok wtf

blundelld: go to helpl menu civic

blundelld: then about excel

turboeditsupport: dave i can do it on my screen for all to see

blundelld: that would be cool

blundelld: connect back to the reflector

CivicGriff: microsoft excel 2000

turboeditsupport: im still connected

blundelld: just look at the reflector

blundelld: chris will show it off :-)

SpenserHMT: what is the excel showing us

xenocron1 has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: where's the file?

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/download.php/12,456/columncalc.xls

blundelld: the file is showing you where the column boundaries are

blundelld: should see two tabs at the bottom

blundelld: "Columns"

blundelld: "Lookup Tables"

blundelld: Columns shows you what happens

blundelld: Lookup Tables lets you type in a sample lookup table to try it out

xenocron1: good...can everyone see?

blundelld: I see, thanks chris

leedblows: lookin good

blundelld: ok lets all look at chris's screeen

blundelld: there are several rows

blundelld: 036h = the "stock" MAP sensor value

blundelld: 036low = the lowest MAP value for that column

blundelld: 036high = the highest MAP value for that column

blundelld: boundaries...

Revtec2121 has left the room.

blundelld: column low raw MAP = the lowest *raw* MAP value for that column

blundelld: column high raw MAP = the highest *raw* MAP value for that column

My15psiZC: damn I keep losing the connection to that desktop

xenocron1 has left the room.

blundelld: Column MAP = what you see in TE2 : the average of high + low

blundelld: :-( i'm sorry 15psi zc

blundelld: remember, the *raw* MAP coming in is the voltage

blundelld: it is getting translated into a value (036h) that the ECU uses NA

blundelld: and another value (A9) the ECU uses in boost

xenocron1 has entered the room.

blundelld: the lookup tables control how the raw values coming in get translated into the values the ECU uses

blundelld: Chris, could you tab to lookup tables

blundelld: read warning

blundelld: :-)

SpenserHMT: mine doesn't look like that

blundelld: you prob don't have the toolpak

blundelld: the toolpak is what makes it look right

SpenserHMT: #NAME?

blundelld: Tools menu... add-ins

blundelld: check analysis toolpak

blundelld: see reflector

blundelld: :-)

blundelld: thanks Chris

blundelld: ok

blundelld: these are the lookup tables

blundelld: slowly scroll to ~162 area please Chris

blundelld: SLOWLY

blundelld: you'll see that there is a sligly uneven scaling

blundelld: keep going chris

blundelld: 162 in other column

blundelld: stop

xenocron1: :-)

blundelld: back up a little bit

xenocron1:  good?

blundelld: we are looking at the NA/boost transition

blundelld: for a stock MAP sensor right now-

blundelld: A1 (161) is the highest value a stock ECU will read w/o CEL

blundelld: A2 (162) is the first value of our boost table then

blundelld: 162 gets mapped to 4

blundelld: 163 gets mapped to 8

blundelld: ...

blundelld: 165 gets mapped to 15

blundelld: 166 gets mapped to 16

blundelld: that is the first transition of a column

blundelld: 4, 8, 15 / 16  is less than one

blundelld: 16 / 16 = 1

blundelld: the second column ("zero" was the first column)

blundelld: now look

blundelld: 165 -> 16

blundelld: 166 -> 18

blundelld: 167 -> 21

blundelld: 168 -> 24

blundelld: 169 -> 27

blundelld: 170 -> 30

blundelld: *****

SI KVA has left the room.

blundelld: 171 -> 33

blundelld: 33 / 16 = 2

blundelld: 2.xxxx

blundelld: so we are in the next column

blundelld: tab back over to the columns part Chris

blundelld: the Columns tab on here is nothing more than a shorthand to what the lookup tables are doinh

blundelld: if you make a change to the lookup tables tab

blundelld: it will update on the columns tab

blundelld: showing you what you did

blundelld: and how it affects what goes in what column

blundelld: sorry this is so complicated

xenocron1: its easier to follow with pictures :-)

My15psiZC: yeah I'm on the fringe of pulling my hair out LOL

Uebermass has entered the room.

blundelld: ok

blundelld: what's the URL for the reflector?

blundelld: uebermass should hop on the reflector

My15psiZC: http://pgmfi.org/reflector/

xenocron1: pgmfi.org/reflector

xenocron1: pass: turboedit

blundelld: thanks

blundelld: ok

blundelld: so lets look at column 1 that chris has highlighted

blundelld: I think the spreadsheet is a little wacked

SpenserHMT: ok, sorry if i sound ignorant, but I'm getting really bored and confused, What exactly are you trying to show us with the tables in excel, What does this have to do with TE and tunning.

xenocron1 has left the room.

blundelld: 2bar sensors

blundelld: 3bar sensors

blundelld: 4bar sensors

blundelld: picking where your columns go

leedblows: werd

blundelld: what the ECU is really doing with the data it receives

xenocron1 has entered the room.

blundelld: advanced topics :-)

SpenserHMT: lol, but doesn't TE do this for you?

blundelld: nope, not yet (or maybe ever?)

SpenserHMT: wel fuck the fucking fuckers.

blundelld: the next version of TE will display them right

SpenserHMT: ok

blundelld: NG5 was a departure from the existing code

blundelld: because there are no longer seperate tables for NA / boost fiddling

SpenserHMT: I see what your explaning now.

blundelld: there are 256 bytes coming in now

blundelld: there is not a single 256 byte table that covers every possibility

CivicGriff: how can I download the NG5

blundelld: on PGMFI.

leedblows: Ive had that sheet for awhile.  Thanks for the explanation.  Makes more sense

xenocron1 has left the room.

blundelld: OBD0 dev

blundelld: leed - the only difference between NG1-NG4 and NG5 in terms of the lookup tables

blundelld: NG1-4 had 2 - 256 byte tables

blundelld: and a TON of padding

xenocron1 has entered the room.

blundelld: NG5 has NO padding

blundelld: and a single table

SpenserHMT: what?

blundelld: ok

My15psiZC: does that make the crossover point more smooth?

blundelld: NA range = 13 to 161

SpenserHMT: ues

leedblows: OT, but in a nut shell what was happening furing the boost transition/fuel dump in the old ng4 code?  Was it dumping fuel ala the last colum?

blundelld: boost range = 162 to 255

CivicGriff: sorry, but where at in PGMFI

blundelld: NG4 problems...

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=12&i=3331&t=3331

CivicGriff: thanks

blundelld: NG4 had a VERY bad coding mistake

blundelld: Chris, did I once recall you saying something about only the right 5 columns having any effect?

xenocron1: something llike that

xenocron1: how many?

blundelld: well, how much boost were you running?

xenocron1: 6 psi

blundelld: you all have to promise not to smack me if I finish explaining this

blundelld: ok?

Uebermass: ok

My15psiZC: lol

xenocron1 has left the room.

blundelld: look at the reflector

SpenserHMT: ok

blundelld: chris, move the IM window

blundelld: so we can see the whole boost table

blundelld: the code went something like this:

blundelld: get raw map

blundelld: subtract map crossover (161 - biggest NA value)

xenocron1 has entered the room.

blundelld: lets say chris was running 6psi

blundelld: 6psi = 6 + 14.5 psi aboljute

blundelld: 21.5 psi absolute

SpenserHMT: 20.5?

blundelld: atmospheric pressure is 14.5 psi

blundelld: when we speak of boost, we mean pressure in addition to the atmosphere

blundelld: MAP sensors read absolute pressure

blundelld: so we need to covert back

blundelld: http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/WebHome?topic=AbsolutePressure

blundelld: ok

blundelld: so Chris is running 20.5psi absolute

blundelld: 20.5 / 26.1 (1.8bar) = .785

blundelld: .785 * 256 = 201

blundelld: 161 - 201 = -40

blundelld: 256 -50 = 226

blundelld: 226 / 256 * 26.1 = 23

blundelld: 23 - 14.5 = 8.5

mc19120 has entered the room.

blundelld: so I bet something like the 9psi column right?

blundelld: or maybe 8.5

xenocron1: me?

blundelld: I forgot to reload a value after subtraction

blundelld: yeah you

xenocron1: what are you asking me?

blundelld: the 8.5 column was doing it for you

xenocron1: yeah

blundelld: basically, the bug in NG4 causing it to run rich was a forgotten reload

blundelld: I subtract the RAW value from the crossover

blundelld: it goes negative, so it runs the boost lookup routine

blundelld: but instead of it having the value it is supposed to (Boost - crossover)

blundelld: it has a "negative" value (crossover - boost)

blundelld: leading to the rom interpreting the tables essentially backwards

Uebermass: oic

xenocron1 has left the room.

Uebermass: whoops

blundelld: NG4 was a bad bad bad no good bug

leedblows: ahhh.  Makes sense now.  LOL, no wonder the gross -50% fuel on the 0-5psi had no affect. 

mc19120 has left the room.

blundelld: and the more boost you ran, the more you got to the left

blundelld: scary.

blundelld: brb

blundelld: pee

blundelld: think about questions

CivicGriff: while he's gone...somebody explain to me how to import the files again, I cannot open a file in TE2

xenocron1 has entered the room.

SpenserHMT: go to tools

SpenserHMT: go map import/export

xenocron1 has left the room.

SpenserHMT: choose import

SpenserHMT: then open the file

CivicGriff: i can see those, but I cannot chose that option

SpenserHMT: it must be a .exp file

CivicGriff: they are not black

SpenserHMT: you have tr9?

SpenserHMT: TRY-9

CivicGriff: yea

leedblows: You have a bin open right?

SpenserHMT: you have to have a bin open

CivicGriff: when i try and open one, it says not a TE rom

turboeditsupport: civis griff

blundelld: you'll prob have to find a earlier TE releate

turboeditsupport: watch my screen

turboeditsupport: turboedit open

CivicGriff: ahhhh crap, it works with NG5

blundelld: Jason dropped support for older bins

turboeditsupport: k..so you are good

blundelld: if you get the version of TE that you used to make the ROM

turboeditsupport: Jason...what a bish

CivicGriff: well, I finally got one open, lol

blundelld: you should be able to export

blundelld: and play

turboeditsupport: do you guys realize this has been going on for 4+ hours!!!

blundelld: yawn

leedblows: yup.  Me likey.  Wish I didnt fall asleep and miss the beginning

Uebermass: me too

blundelld: its about time to go smoke a J

Uebermass: lol

blundelld: and go for a drive

Uebermass: johnson?

Uebermass: lol

My15psiZC: lmao

CivicGriff: hey, is there a NA pm6 bin available for the try 9

blundelld: supposedly the turbo CRX beat up on a R32 skyline last night

Uebermass: yezzz

blundelld: at this point, the boost + NA bins are the same

blundelld: the NA bins don't use the Boost section

blundelld: make sense?

turboeditsupport: hey...what do you say we wrap this up

turboeditsupport: and continue next week

SpenserHMT: no

Uebermass: sleepy time?

blundelld: heheheh

turboeditsupport: Sunday same timeish

blundelld: I'll stay up man

Uebermass: same bat channel?

blundelld: let them keep askin

turboeditsupport: k

blundelld: gnight chris

leedblows: Thanks Dave.  Very good explaning.

blundelld: thanks

turboeditsupport: im not leaving

CivicGriff: where do I find the boost+na bins

blundelld: oh

blundelld: the NA bin is the boost bin

turboeditsupport: http://www.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=12&i=3331&t=3331

blundelld: I feel like a zen teacher

blundelld: the spoon is not bending

blundelld: it is your mind that wraps around the spoon

turboeditsupport: its feeding

blundelld: :-)

My15psiZC: there is no spoon

My15psiZC: lmao

blundelld: :-)

SpenserHMT: so NG5 is also a code, not just maps?

SpenserHMT: i don't get it

blundelld: NG5 is code

Uebermass: code change yes

turboeditsupport: NG5 is the ROM

leedblows: ng5 is the whole taco

leedblows: hair and all

blundelld: however, the code affects the ROM

blundelld: and the maps are changed by the code

Uebermass: different but the same

blundelld: potentially

CivicGriff: my head is smoking

blundelld: like when I fuck up bad like NG4

CivicGriff: but I missed a large part in the middle

Uebermass: lol rolling out your ears

turboeditsupport: dont worry...ill find something wrong with this one too

blundelld: you came in on the super hard stuff Griff

SpenserHMT: so the code, can it ever be perfect?

Uebermass: it'll never be perfect

blundelld: probably not

Uebermass: nothin ever is

blundelld: I was having issues with code 76 + no starting with ng4

CivicGriff: no...i was here earlier as revtec2121 at my buddies house, then left to drive home and missed a bunch

blundelld: hopefully it will not do it with ng5

blundelld: code 76 doesnt fucking exist

SpenserHMT: lol

CivicGriff: what does ng5 mean anyway

blundelld: griff, ask away

SpenserHMT: well so how good is Ng5?

blundelld: Next Gen 5

CivicGriff: are the vac ignition and fuel maps in ng5 like a stock pm6?

blundelld has left the room.

blundelld has entered the room.

leedblows: The vac/ign looks like stock a6, the vac/fuel looks like its scaled for 450's

turboeditsupport: if you read the EXP with it...Dave has written a little explanation

blundelld: any NA exp should import ok

blundelld: no funny business going on

turboeditsupport: Dave i have a question

turboeditsupport: say for instance you want to use NG5

blundelld: ask

turboeditsupport: on an NA application

CivicGriff: you managed to confuse more...I must be really tired

blundelld: :-)

turboeditsupport: if i found and opened a stock map for a ZC or b16 or any engine for that matter

turboeditsupport: could i import those fuel and ignition maps into NG5 and expect them to run 'like stock'

turboeditsupport: ?

turboeditsupport: or will the difference in column headings screw up that theory

blundelld: run like stock

blundelld: unless you've messed with the lookups like we just went over

turboeditsupport: they why need to tune ANYTHING in VAC?

blundelld: the stock lookups are designed to be identical to stock

blundelld: stock is not well tuned, daniel-san

blundelld: :-)

turboeditsupport: k....

SpenserHMT: stock is gay!!

turboeditsupport: stock runs stock tho!

blundelld: heh be nice to homosexual people

leedblows: Dave, at what ECT does the ecu stop adding fuel enrichment?  Or is there a constant trim applied based on ECT even when >190

CivicGriff: ok...not a FI type of question, but right now I am just converted to MPFI, is there a map that would make the car run better/stronger

blundelld: leed: not sure

blundelld: next time I go poking at ECT stuff i'll try to figure it out

blundelld: Griff: probably.

CivicGriff: lol

leedblows: hmmm   WB says nothing going on after 185ish, but just curious.

blundelld: as a rule of thumb, honda retards the piss out of the low end timing

blundelld: if you are willing to run good gas

leedblows: fuck ya they do.   soccer man 89octane proof

blundelld: you can often gain a lot of low-mid range

blundelld: 25 degrees initially

blundelld: taper down to around 12 degrees by 1200 rpm

blundelld: taper to 4 by 7400 RPM

CivicGriff: 7400, can the 1.5 handle that?

My15psiZC: to 4 advanced or retarded?

blundelld: add a lil fuel around the sweet spot of the motor last couple columns

blundelld: add 4 degrees

Johnnydigit has entered the room.

turboeditsupport: XDeep has joined us

Johnnydigit: heh

blundelld: werd

turboeditsupport: one of the founding helpers of TE

Johnnydigit: whos this fruit

blundelld: yo momma

Johnnydigit: man i think i clipped off every one of those resistors and i still get that egr

Johnnydigit: i ditched it and am using another virgin auto pr4

blundelld: :-(

turboeditsupport: Dave...that reminds me....PM7 that new code for me to Try on my PR4?

blundelld: ok on it

blundelld: hey I got a questoin

blundelld: will running a car with no PCV for an extended time idling make it smoke badly?

blundelld: smoking seemed to go away after a brisk drive

blundelld: I was going to do a compression test tomorrow

turboeditsupport: no PCV?....just to atmosphere?

blundelld: yeah

Johnnydigit: im running an internal PA ecu on my 90. i guess i cant do it the other way around

turboeditsupport: smoking from where?

blundelld: exhaust

turboeditsupport: hmmm

turboeditsupport: i have heard of smoking from breather

Johnnydigit: nah as long as you dont plug the  crank

blundelld: plug the crank"

turboeditsupport: crankcase

CivicGriff: why do you say not to use the maps of NG5 unless you want your motor to die?

Johnnydigit: man im smoking at 6000+ now

blundelld: Griff: disclaimer

blundelld: :-)

blundelld: NG5 = big change

CivicGriff: LOL :-)

turboeditsupport: Who here is using a wideband?

Johnnydigit: dave how do you find out which components do what. just trace the leads and/or need a testbench?

blundelld: PLX M300 installed in car

turboeditsupport: ME

turboeditsupport: LM-1

blundelld: deep: either from code or  by tracing from pins into ECU

Johnnydigit: i should just suck it up and find a pm6

turboeditsupport: Dave...where are my parts for the RTP board?

turboeditsupport: :-)

blundelld: fuck

blundelld: I need to go home and pack everyone's shit up

blundelld: fuck

Johnnydigit: whats with the lm1 logging now

turboeditsupport: bah

turboeditsupport: loggin sucks

Johnnydigit: shit i need that too

turboeditsupport: I need TurboEdit Logger!!!

Uebermass: blundy

Johnnydigit: i guess its $460 on the techedge then

blundelld: steven

turboeditsupport: Dave....thanks SOOOO much for your help tonight!

Uebermass: no PCV on the engine is kinda bad

blundelld: I know

blundelld: I need to do something about it

Uebermass: pressure build in crankcase

Uebermass: oil blow by

blundelld: yeah

Uebermass: smoke yes

blundelld: ok.  so I need to rig up some kind of PCV

blundelld: in a hurry

Johnnydigit: wtf

Johnnydigit: blake?

CivicGriff: turboeditsupport=xenocroncrx or something like that, right?

blundelld: yeah

turboeditsupport: xenocron1

blundelld: I'm blundar

blundelld: Jessica P is Parker

blundelld: lol

Johnnydigit: but, if theres no vacuum at WOT, then the crank is just pushing out anyways

Johnnydigit: so the pcv only helps at low load imo

My15psiZC: I am whatever I say I am if I wasnt then why would I say I am

CivicGriff: ok, if I have any q's during the week, can I PM either of you?

turboeditsupport: yes Johnny

blundelld: I was going to use my turbo inlet as vacuum source

turboeditsupport: you can PM me

blundelld: I hate PMs

blundelld: PM him

blundelld: lol

turboeditsupport: dont bother Dave

CivicGriff: lol...ok

turboeditsupport: his ass needs to be coding!!!

Johnnydigit: he likes it when you a/s/l

CivicGriff: i understand..busy programmin

blundelld: I'm a grumpy bitch

turboeditsupport: he's a whore

My15psiZC: lmao

blundelld: 25/m/cincinnati

blundelld: what?

Johnnydigit: turn off the sound

Johnnydigit: i just need to figure out how to turn off the  blinking icons

blundelld: I think I wanna go cuddle with the woman for a minute

CivicGriff: damn, you can't be grumpy at 25

blundelld: and stretch

Johnnydigit: im 25 and grumpy as hell

turboeditsupport: who is logging this?

CivicGriff: I'm grumpy at 33 though

Uebermass: I think mine is

blundelld: I think I did

CivicGriff: yes, I want to be able to look at what I missed earlier

Uebermass: from the point i came in

My15psiZC: I'll save what I have

turboeditsupport: yeah...i have tho WHOLE thing

turboeditsupport: email anything saved from tonight

blundelld: you have the whole thing Chris?

CivicGriff: sweet, i need that shit!!

turboeditsupport: ill piece it together and post it on my site

turboeditsupport: yes

turboeditsupport: from the beginning

blundelld: email me

Johnnydigit: who got to control the mouse heh

blundelld: I wanna post the advanced topics

blundelld: in edited form

turboeditsupport: ME

blundelld: on the wiki

SpenserHMT: Turboeditsupport, whats your site

CivicGriff: WOOT

turboeditsupport: www.xenocron.com

blundelld: I think PGMFI.org is mine

turboeditsupport: :-)

blundelld: I don't really consider it to be ownership tho

blundelld: custodian?

blundelld: lol

Johnnydigit: dude your tyrus sticks out a lot on the 91 bumper

CivicGriff: make sure you post up on HMT when you have it posted to your site

turboeditsupport: its better now

turboeditsupport: i will

Johnnydigit: the charge pipe at the inlet/outlet that is

Johnnydigit: unf. log that

turboeditsupport: unf?

StreetriceR: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287118741&idx=0 My car :-)

turboeditsupport: ok...so stop giving out info

turboeditsupport: im going to save from here

CivicGriff: class dismissed?

turboeditsupport: feel free to IM each other this week for help with TE

turboeditsupport: and me if need be

turboeditsupport: we need to support each other!!!!

StreetriceR: i'm stressed about my ps9

Johnnydigit: fap fap. log that

CivicGriff: recess!! recess!!

StreetriceR: chris its still throwing a CEL 19 and 20

turboeditsupport: and dont be little bitches...use TurboEdit

turboeditsupport: boost your cars

Johnnydigit: wtf. im always late for class

turboeditsupport: heh

Johnnydigit: cel19?

StreetriceR: yep..

blundelld: auto trans

Johnnydigit: Q28

turboeditsupport: XDeep...ill post the notes on G2IC

PureCRXtasy: damn. I got alot of reading to do

StreetriceR: cut out Q28?

turboeditsupport: BTW

Johnnydigit: yep

Johnnydigit: it works

StreetriceR: btw

SpenserHMT: tjos was great

turboeditsupport: HUGE thanks to PureCRXtasy!!!!!

Johnnydigit: dave has spoken

StreetriceR: it threw a cel 20

StreetriceR: blundar said take ou that br1

blundelld: cel20 = eld

turboeditsupport: he is the one that helped me set this up

StreetriceR: i did it but it still throws cel20

blundelld: br1 should fix it

StreetriceR: yeah i took it out :-(

PureCRXtasy: glad I could help

blundelld: if you cut Q28

blundelld: save it

StreetriceR: imma take out q28

blundelld: cause you'll need it for the vtec circuit

StreetriceR: lol the BR1 melted

blundelld: its just a wire link

StreetriceR: ok brb lemme grab the ps9

StreetriceR: again.. lol

CivicGriff: later guys, see ya next week..thanks!!

blundelld: np

PureCRXtasy: Chris did you save the chat discussion?

turboeditsupport: doing it now